Protestantism

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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So, what is the freedom that George W. Bush wants to spread throughout the world, Paper?
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And, what about the freedom those two tax evaders want to exercise up there in New England? Have you heard about them?
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:

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A very good reply, Paper. Well thought out.
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includes freedom from invasion into my personal life
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Hence my 'freedom FROM whom'.

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - Whose Freedom

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Phil wrote:
So, what is the freedom that George W. Bush wants to spread throughout the world, Paper?
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I don't define that as freedom--he isn't asking if people want to be freed, and, he didn't ask how, either. Forcing another, in any way, does not produce freedom.
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Further, he seems (IMHO) to be more interested in colonization than in really creating a free nation. A colony is not free, it is dependent on its colonizer econimically and politically.
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And, what about the freedom those two tax evaders want to exercise up there in New England? Have you heard about them?
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I've been taking a break from the news. Fill me in.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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I just caught a glimpse of the couple in New England (New Hampshire?) who are refusing to pay their taxes. They are hunkered down in their home with ample supplies to last for a while.
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Basically, Lakoff, the author of the book, Whose Freedom, talks about two different freedoms; one that is represented by the progressive movement in the United States and the freedom that is represented by the Republican Party in the United States.
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I think it behooves us to understand these two completely opposite perspectives on freedom so we have a better understanding of what is at stake with what is being passed off as conservativism. What is the difference between conservativism and liberalism in American politics?
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There definitely is a type of freedom that Bush is trying to spread throughout the world. I think it can be traced back to the colonial days under the Brits. The entire idea behind the upsurge from ordinary people in the colonial times of America was Liberty. But, different strokes for different folks, right? The Virginians, in particular, had an idea that liberty belonged to the aristocratic class--it was their right to have slaves that did the work while they lounged and enjoyed the good life. That concept of liberty is at the root of the freedom the Republican Party believes in. That's why it is such an easy thing for them to bitch about having to pay taxes on money they have earned through investements they are able to make. And, it is why they get so freaking upset over the fact that some underclass person is able to draw unemployment. And, why they think they are doing more than their share in the Iraq war with their tax dollars while the lower class is having an opportunity to earn some money in the military.
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But, freedom to go to college to earn a medical degree paid for by tax dollars? Not on your life! That freedom belongs to the person who is able to pay the costs left over after taxes pay the grosser amounts--maybe $50,000.00 a year while the government pays maybe $200,000.00 a year? I'm not sure of the break down here; but, I know it is similar. How do you get to go to university if your family cannot afford the fees? Why, you borrow the money. And, from whom do you borrow it? And, how much does the loan cost? Is it true that sixty percent of college graduates owe a minimum of $20,000.00 when they graduate? Is it a wonder that private investors want to buy the college loan business up as it was talked about in the news last week?
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Should people be able to keep the products of their labor? That's a pertinent question regarding freedom. Were slaves able to keep the products of their labor? In Virginia during slave holding days? Are workers able to keep the products of their labors today? Yikes!! These are the kinds of questions those rotten socialists ask.
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These questions and many others of a related nature were hot and heavy during the first third of the twentieth century in America. By the way, should women be paid the same that men get for performing the same work? That's pertinent as well.
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Progressives and Conservatives.
Liberals and Republicans.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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he seems (IMHO) to be more interested in colonization than in really creating a free nation.
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Exactly. Colonization is outlined in the "Bremer Orders". An important and very relevant read here:
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The Economic Colonization of Iraq: Illegal and Immoral
http://www.ifg.org/analysis/globalizatio...
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"The Bush Administration is using the military invasion and occupation of Iraq to advance a corporate globalization agenda that is illegal under international law, has not been chosen by the Iraqi people, and may ultimately prove to be even more devastating than twelve years of economic sanctions, two U.S.-led wars and one occupation. The Administration's ultimate goal is to take the agenda to the entire region." ...

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by Migisi:
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But, it's truly freedom for the corporation owners.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by pink101:
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Indeed, there is freedom only for the corporate kings - who freely bilk billions from taxpayers to build their own fiefdoms... the corporate overlords who freely use government troops and mercenaries to secure and defend their foreign feudal states.
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-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by Migisi:
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Now, you're beginning to get it.
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Lost Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by pink101:
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Freedom of speech, guaranteed by the Constitution, has been lost to the troops ....
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No more news from the boys, and e-mail home to mom and pop, and wife and kids needs military clearance?!
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New Army Rules Could Kill G.I. Blogs (Maybe E-mail, Too)
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/05/ne...
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"The U.S. Army has ordered soldiers to stop posting to blogs or sending personal e-mail messages, without first clearing the content with a superior officer, Wired News has learned. The directive, issued April 19, is the sharpest restriction on troops' online activities since the start of the Iraq war. And it could mean the end of military blogs, observers say.
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"Military officials have been wrestling for years with how to handle troops who publish blogs. Officers have weighed the need for wartime discretion against the opportunities for the public to personally connect with some of the most effective advocates for the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- the troops themselves. The secret-keepers have generally won the argument, and the once-permissive atmosphere has slowly grown more tightly regulated. Soldier-bloggers have dropped offline as a result.
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"The new rules, obtained by Wired News, require a commander be consulted before every blog update.
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"This is the final nail in the coffin for combat blogging," said retired paratrooper Matthew Burden, editor of The Blog of War anthology. "No more military bloggers writing about their experiences in the combat zone. This is the best PR the military has -- it's most honest voice out of the war zone. And it's being silenced."
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It's clear the military is afraid that someone will expose the truth about what's going on. Can't have that kind of honest reporting, can we.

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Lost Freedom

In response to Lost Freedom posted by Migisi:
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Well, I was in the military and I can speak for what it means to be under the rules that govern one's conduct.
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It is necessary for a military force to be apolitical; but, that seems to have been changed. I see Bush parades his generals in front of the media to talk. And, that is stupid for anyone who understands the situation.

Military Service people do not have freedom of speech. That's one of the first things a new recruit learns.
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-- posted by pink101