Protestantism

» pink101 - What Do These Words Mean

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Freedom and Liberty, as words, are often used interchangeably.
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The Bible tells us that Jesus is the author of our liberty.
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What do these words mean?
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

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This subject comes up quite often in discussions. It is the issue George Lakoff brings to focus in his latest book, Whose Freedom.
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Here is a quotation from the Publisher:
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"Since September 11, 2001, the Bush administration has relentlessly invoked the word 'freedom.' The United States can strike preemptively because 'freedom is on the march.' Social security should be privatized in order to protect individual freedoms. In the 2005 presidential inaugural speech, the words ;freedom,' 'free,' and 'liberty' were used forty-nine times. 'Freedom' is one of the most contested words in American political discourse, the keystone to the domestic and foreign policy battles that are racking this polarized nation. For many Democrats, it seems that President Bush's use of the word is meaningless and contradictory-deployed opportunistically to justify American military action abroad and the curtailing of civil liberties at home. But in Whose Freedom?, George Lakoff, an adviser to the Democratic party, shows that in fact the right has effected a devastatingly coherent and ideological redefinition of freedom. The conservative revolution has remade freedom in its own image and deployed it as a central weapon on the front lines of everything from the war on terror to the battles over religion in the classroom and abortion. In a deep and alarming analysis, Lakoff explains the mechanisms behind this hijacking of our most cherished political idea-and shows how progressives have not only failed to counter the right-wing attack on freedom but have failed to recognize its nature. Whose Freedom? argues forcefully what progressives must do to take back ground in this high-stakes war over the most central idea in American life."
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http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksea...

-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by pink101:

Social security should be privatized in order to protect individual freedoms.
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Right, and if you believe that, I have some oceanfront property right here in Vermont. Or, if the ocean's not your cup of tea, I have mountain property in St Cloud, Florida.
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Wonder what kind of freedom Bush said he was protecting when he pushed for passage of Mdeicare, part D (called Disaster, by all who have to work with it--or are supposed to rely upon it for health care).
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We've heard an awful lot, since 9-11 of the necessity for relinquishing SOME of our freedoms to protect a "greater" freedom. Freedom for whom? those who would like to know what books I borrow from the library, or who my friends are, or if I wash ny hands when I use a public toilet?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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I'm sure the book is in your library.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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This subject, the one about what it means--historically--to have freedom in America has been an issue for a long time.
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It doesn't surprise me that we aren't getting much play in this thread.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Almost the Same

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This thread is closely related to the one--Socialism--started by Brian Tubbs and so much so as to be almost the same.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by paper_turtle:
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Freedom for whom?
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More like .... Freedom ~FROM~ whom?
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Voltaire:
So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men.
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Edward R. Murrow:
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
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Benjamin Franklin:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
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Dorothy Thompson:
When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered.
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-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by Migisi:
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More like, What do you mean when YOU say freedom?
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What DO you mean?
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It's a very controversial issue in American politics. George W. Bush is all for spreading freedom to Iraq. Whose idea of freedom would that be?
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And, is there more than one idea of what freedom means?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Whose Freedom

In response to Whose Freedom posted by pink101:

I think there are different kinds of freedom, or maybe different levels.
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Civic freedom encompasses what is within the constitution and the bill of rights, but it also includes freedom from invasion into my personal life. What I read, who I associate with, how I vote, what I do in my spare time should be my business, and my business alone. In addition, I should have the right to determine what is done to my body--including when I die (should I be in a terminally vegetative state).
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Religions freedom means I am free to make up my own mind about what I believe (or do not believe), and how I will practice my beliefs.
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Personal freedom means I am as free in mind and spirit as I choose to be, regardless of any external circumstance. No one can make me feel, think, do, or say anything. Its up to me to choose.
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Freedom, however, implies that I have an obligation to uphold the freedoms of others, because whatever threatens the freedom of another also threatens mine.
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In addition, freedom implies responsibility and self-restraint. I am free to do anything (provided, of course I am willing to deal with the consequences). But sometimes I need to refrain from exercising my freedom in the interest of the welfare of another (or group of others).
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I've only scratched the surface, but those are the basics.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle