Protestantism

» pink101 - Delight

In response to Delight posted by BrianTubbs:
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(Not desires of the mind, flesh, lust, etc. But desires of the heart -- love, security, fulfillment, significance, etc.)
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???
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How do you separate mind from heart in your statement? The heart is a muscle that pumps oxygenated blood through our vascular system keeping our body alive. The mind is a repository of memories tthat are played out in an activity we call thinking.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Delight

In response to Delight posted by pink101:

He's speaking metaphorically, Phil. I think you know that. I think you also know in standard everyday English people use "heart" as a metaphor to express all kinds of emotions:

My heart wasn't in it
I followed my heart
I didn't have the heart to tell him
He has a big heart
My heart overflowed
My heart was filled with joy
He nursed anger in his heart
In your heart of hearts you know
He has the heart of a lion

I could keep on for quite a long time.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Delight

In response to Delight posted by paper_turtle:
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I understand the metaphor, you are correct.
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But, I think the point of my question is ignored in your response.
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The "Heart" according to your statement is something central to one's thinking, is that correct? Then, it is no different from the "Mind" and is, in fact, a part of the thinking process. Right?
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That seems to blow Brian's point away, doesn't it?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Delight

In response to Delight posted by pink101:

No. Emotions are not *always* the product of rational thought. If you study brain scans which are conducted while people are exposed to stimuli which appeal to emotion, you will see that a different part of the brain lights up than when the person is asked to, say, supply the definition of a word or solve a math problem.
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Mind, within the context of Brian's quote, refers to the egoic mind and the sorts of thoughts which lead to the lust for power, material goods, or sexual conquest.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - You Want To Argue

In response to Delight posted by paper_turtle:
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You want to argue.
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No. Emotions are not *always* the product of rational thought.
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Did I say they were? Where? How? When?
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There is an activity of the mind known as cathexion. It occurs when the neural pathways are fired without a controlling oversight of the conscious thought process. It is said that people go off like sky rockets when they act in cathexion. A leads to B to C to D to E without restriction. We are often cathected when something "ticks" us off.
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Is that what you mean by emotions?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - No I don't

In response to You Want To Argue posted by pink101:

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Phil, Your original statement was:
The "Heart" according to your statement is something central to one's thinking, is that correct? Then, it is no different from the "Mind" and is, in fact, a part of the thinking process. Right?
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"Thinking process" implies, to me, rational thought.
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Emotions lead to thoughts which may or may not be rational.
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Emotions influence how one thinks/perceives.
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Emotion:

I feel happy when I see the face of an old friend
I feel awed watching the sun rise
I feel angry when I drop my keys in the mud
I feel compassion when I see someone in pain

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - No I don't

In response to No I don't posted by paper_turtle:
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So, it appears I think that you think emotions involve irrational thought.
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It is still thinking.
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Right?
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:~)

-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - No I don't

In response to No I don't posted by pink101:

Yes, but emotions are not necessarily *connected* to thought, that's all. And if there is a connection it may be at such a deeply subconscious level that we can't really trace the conenction.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Yes, You Do.

In response to No I don't posted by paper_turtle:
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Yes, you do.
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:~ )
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But, that's okay.
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It looks to me as though this is a scientific area that you're wanting to discuss in some sort of a non-scientific way.
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But, the original point Brian made was that the heart and the mind are different. My claim was that the "heart" to which he pointed is just an automatic aspect of the mind--a cathexion or cathection.
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If you look it up in a good dictionary, you will see it refers to libido--the libido being a subliminal type of thinking.
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So, if we believe something in our heart, we believe it below our generally conscious level. A person who doesn't seem to think with their heart is treated as though they have no feelings.
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When you see your "Heart Throb" you automatically express changes in pulse, blood pressure, and all sorts of things. Ask any teen ager.
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: ~ )
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Well, *Maybe* ;-)

In response to Yes, You Do. posted by pink101:

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It looks to me as though this is a scientific area that you're wanting to discuss in some sort of a non-scientific way.
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I'm just trying to stay away from scientific lingo and over-complication. I think the physiology/psychology of the origins and expression of thoughts and emotions are quite fascinating--and highly relevant to spirituality.
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But, the original point Brian made was that the heart and the mind are different. My claim was that the "heart" to which he pointed is just an automatic aspect of the mind--a cathexion or cathection.
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I don't like the word automatic--it makes humankind sound like a machine.

Once again he was speaking metaphorically, with mind representing both the ego, and the left side of the brain which thinks linearly, in black-and-white, without the tempering of love, intuition, and insight. Heart represents compassion, altruism, mercy, tenderness, empathy, feelings of unity and connection.
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Sometimes reading the Bible from a scientific POV just leads to confusion, ya know?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle