Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Proving the Resurrection

In response to Proving the Resurrection posted by pink101:

Either you're sidestepping or misinterpreting what I wrote, Pink. I'm not claiming that because I "feel" Jesus - therefore He's real. (Now, yes, I believe that the personal witness of God in my heart affirms my own personal relationship with God - but THAT is a personal thing, and I'm not forcing that on anyone!)

What I'm trying to argue Pink in THIS thread is that there is some good, solid EVIDENCE for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's not external proof positive - meaning that I can't prove to you beyond all doubt that Jesus rose from the dead. But I can demonstrate, via HISTORICAL evidence (including the writings we now have as part of our New Testament), that there's good reason to believe in the resurrection. It's not a fantasy. It's not a wish.

Bottom line...Christianity is a reasonable, credible, plausible faith.

» Brian Tubbs - Faith

While we're at it, let me explain that "faith" is essentially "trust." It's not a wish. It's a decision to put your TRUST in something. I have faith that my wife is loyal and committed to me. I have faith that my kids love me. I have faith that the seat I'm sitting in right now won't collapse on me (even though I do need to lose a little weight, but that's another matter). I have faith that when I type this message and hit "post now," it will show up on the site.

Faith is trust. So, when I refer to the "Christian faith," I'm referring to that which people have put their trust in.

Now, if I could provide 100% irrefutable evidence (proof-positive, observable, direct evidence) that the central claims of Christianity were true - then there'd be NO faith. There'd be only knowledge. The Bible doesn't call us to knowledge, but rather faith.

HOWEVER...I can show that there IS evidence which SUPPORTS our decision to put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The evidence won't take you all the way to Home Plate, but it can help provide some assurance that Home Plate is there.

» HeadZenCards - Resurrection's Value

In response to Proving the Resurrection posted by BrianTubbs:

Fine, Brian. I can't prove that Jesus did not fly into the clouds. There are so many things I cannot prove.

You cannot disprove the Lord Sri Krishna's miracles. Why not believe in him?

Let's discuss the VALUE of Jesus' so-called resurrection. Once he flew into the clouds, did this mean that all of humanity was saved?

No. Jesus, in the fiction that is the Bible, said:

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And what is an example of the LORD GOD's will? Where do we find out what that will may encompass?

1 Samuel 15:1 - Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.

15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, INFANT AND SUCKLING, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

So you must DOETH THE WILL OF THE FATHER to get any benefit out of Jesus' resurrection.

At one time in the past, that evil will included killing infants and sucklings.

Do not find comfort in diverting attention away from this by counting the number of "witnesses" or speculating about Jesus' superpowers.

The message of the resurrection is that you have to find comfort in being ready to do HIS FATHER'S WILL, which, in the past, included utterly destroying infants and sucklings.

And there is no comfort there.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» pink101 - Faith

In response to Faith posted by BrianTubbs:
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My position is that everyone has a right to believe whatever they believe on this issue of Jesus and the resurrection; but, I think it is an obfuscation of the reality that IS Jesus.
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In America every person has the right to judge the authenticity of any evidence for anything. My position on the Bible is that it is the result of some powerful leaders of ancient times--men who did their best to strike fear into the hearts of the people through any means at their disposal.
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I don't think the "god" of the Old Testament is any more a god than the ones the Incas and the Aztecs sacrificed their innocent victims to. Instead, that "god" is the justification the primitive rulers of the ancients used to keep the common people in bondage. The ancient religions are all about bondage. And, Christianity turned into a religion of bondage very soon after the apostle Paul disappeared from the scene.
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What else is there to say?
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-- posted by pink101

» HeadZenCards - Faith

In response to Faith posted by pink101:

What is your opinion of Matt. 7:21-23?

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Brother_Jones - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by HeadZenCards:

That's because we're talking about the supposed resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ here.
Was Gandhi a witness to it?

No, I raised the question simply because you mentioned a truly great man, which is very odd behavior for you. You don't traffic in greatness. And you don't seem to care a bit about those who have provided the greatest examples for people concerning the meaning and purpose of a human being.

When you see the names on a page of:

Gandhi, Mother Teresa, MLk, and Jesus

What happens in that mind of yours? You simply think 'zippa dee doo da.' That is your problem my friend. You seem to have no soul or conciousness. There is never an attempt to provide any meaning or purpose in life base on these posts of yours.

Tell me something. Has being here all this time helped you in any way to discover any purpose or meaning in your life?

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Faith

In response to Faith posted by HeadZenCards:
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I suppose I think of that as a warning to bigots who act like they are the only ones who know the truth about God.
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But, more to the point, I try to line up--what I read in the Bible--with what I think is pertinent and to discard that which I think is not. In a sense, I try to steer clear of what I see as carry overs from the legalistic ways of power based religionism. I guess you can say that I like to pick and choose. I don't believe it's all authentic to what Jesus brought to his audiences. I think some of it purposefully works to detract from what Jesus taught and attempts to subvert it with a mentality of a form of slavery.
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To me, Jesus is all about liberty and a completely personal relationship with the Heavenly Father. I think denominations are a negative influence in the world and I believe Fundamentalism is a super denomination that is a super negative influence in the world.
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My opinion is that people need to be set free from all forms of bondage.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by Brother_Jones:
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What happens in that mind of yours? You simply think 'zippa dee doo da.' That is your problem my friend. You seem to have no soul or conciousness. There is never an attempt to provide any meaning or purpose in life base on these posts of yours.
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Maybe I would say the same thing; but, I hope not. How is it that you give yourself so much authority to define another person? It seems a little overboard and as though you are a teacher making comments as examples for the edification of your class.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by pink101:

Maybe I would say the same thing; but, I hope not.

Would it be too much to ask you or Oliver to provide an uplifting personal story about a visit to a prison, nursing home, or orphanage?

I'm getting a little burned out of this same old, same old about the horrible god of the Christians. How come when I go into prisons and nursing homes, I seldom see anybody there but Christians trying to bring hope and help? How does the horrible old terrible god pull that off, Pinky?

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» HeadZenCards - The Resurrection of Jesus

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Brother Jones, being here is like being anywhere else. It is another place to see human progress, even yours at times. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be here. That should be the "meaning of life".
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You don't seem to care if horrible examples of how to react to situations are taught to the real human beings called "children".
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You don't seem to see the relationship between glorifying an influence that purportedly inspired infanticide and the justification it hands people who commit infanticide today.
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I am not hypnotized by names on a page. Unlike some people, I do not want to become anyone's slave.
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As to why you only see Christians whenever you go to prison, perhaps it is that they break the most laws.

-- posted by HeadZenCards