Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by HeadZenCards:

Well maybe we will start into one of the gospels and you can try to prove your points about the greatest person who ever lived. Then if you won me over, I guess I would go back to simply living for myself and trying to make sure my family is amply provided for before I grab my dirt nap.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» HeadZenCards - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by Brother_Jones:

And if you won me over, I would sell all my belongings and abandon my family to follow Jesus, as he advised many to do, in the fiction that is the Bible.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» redback - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by HeadZenCards:

"Your second ponderance was "why oh why am I here?"
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This is a great question. I think that the moon beams and lolipops got lonely and sprinkled magic dust on the ferry rings and the great elf who tamed the spaghetti monster shook his sleeves and out you came!"

Bill Gates is the spaghetti monster! 'Here' referred to 'Mind & Soul' in suite101 reading your posts.

-- posted by redback

» Migisi - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by HeadZenCards:

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Hmm. Sounds like a challenge. The gauntlets have been thrown down. Who here will give the thumbs up/thumbs down to decide the winner?

-- posted by Migisi

» Brother_Jones - The Resurrection of Jesus

In response to The Resurrection of Jesus posted by HeadZenCards:

And if you won me over, I would sell all my belongings and abandon my family to follow Jesus, as he advised many to do, in the fiction that is the Bible.

One liners about Jesus aren't very effective, imo. I made a reference to Gandhi the other day and you came back with an idea that Gandhi would agree with you on the resurrection of Jesus. But then I asked you if you knew anything about Gandhi's faith and you went deaf and dumb on me.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» HeadZenCards - The Resurrection of Jesus

That's because we're talking about the supposed resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ here.

Was Gandhi a witness to it?

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Brian Tubbs - Proving the Resurrection

Atheists and agnostics can undercut any effort to show evidence for the Resurrection simply by ruling the evidence that's there OUT of the equation. They say: "You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible." Never mind that I - and, I believe (in this case) Brother Jones - are willing to set the New Testament aside as a religious document and simply look at it as a collection of ancient documents written by first-century people. That STILL is unacceptable to radical, extermist agnostics and atheists.

If courts of law operated under the same extreme, radical standards that these extremists do....then no witness with any opinion or bias would be admitted.

What's being asked here is this: Give me a witness to Jesus' resurrection who was not a believer in Jesus.

Do people stop and consider how STUPID (and yes - I'll use that word) that is?????? If you were living in the first century, and you saw Jesus after his resurrection, I think you'd become a believer really quick!!!

That's what happened with James (the brother of Jesus) and Jude (another brother of Jesus). They were NOT followers of his during his ministry, but embraced Christianity AFTER his resurrection. In fact, they wrote two of the New Testament epistles - James and Jude.

I'm not saying that you, as an atheist or agnostic, have to accept the New Testament as inspired Scripture. Nor am I saying that if the Bible says it, that settles it. (I would make that argument to someone who claims to believe in the Bible - but not to an atheist or agnostic). In the case of the Resurrection, I'm simply saying this...

EVERYONE should view the NT writings as ancient, first century documents written by people who were alive in the first century!

That's it! As such, we should consider the NT writings as historical evidence. Perhaps not CONFIRMING evidence. Perhaps not even (in some of your minds) as COMPELLING evidence. But evidence nonetheless.

If, however, you're not willing to go even that far, then we are at an impasse on the Resurrection dispute.

» HeadZenCards - Proving the Resurrection

In response to Proving the Resurrection posted by BrianTubbs:

There is another way to explain the motive of the scribes who wrote James and Jude: They were in on the scam. There's plenty of evidence for that.

When I was a Christian, at this point in the debate, I would continue with the "evidence" I found "in my heart".

But hallucinations are a lot cheaper nowadays. Back in Biblical times, they had to rely on the "manna from heaven" otherwise known as magic mushrooms.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Brian Tubbs - Proving the Resurrection

In response to Proving the Resurrection posted by HeadZenCards:

The hallucination argument breaks down in terms of explaining the first century, post-resurrection appearances. According to Paul, over 500 people saw Jesus. Are you saying that 500 people all had hallucinations? Scholars have by and large rejected this.

As far as the resurrection being a scam, you're postulating a rather large, comprehensive conspiracy that would've taken place right under the noses of the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem.

All the Romans and Jews would've had to do to put a stop to this conspiracy was produce the body of Jesus.

Moreover, are you suggesting that all these followers of Jesus went to their deaths (suffering torture in many cases) for something they KNEW to be a lie and a fraud?

» pink101 - Proving the Resurrection

In response to Proving the Resurrection posted by BrianTubbs:
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Atheists and agnostics can undercut any effort to show evidence for the Resurrection simply by ruling the evidence that's there OUT of the equation.
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You might have some evidence IN you; but, WHAT evidence is OUT there, Brian?
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-- posted by pink101