Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - When does life begin?

In response to Woman's body posted by Migisi:

Other than the fact that people want to keep abortion legal (a motive that skews thinking), there is no reason to doubt that life begins at conception.

Remove the emotional abortion issue from the equation and any doctor or scientist will concede that, AFTER fertilization and conception, we have a living human organism in the woman's womb.

In the course of the pregnancy, that living organism will develop into a viable baby ready to enter the world. Of course, even AFTER birth, that baby is still extremely dependent - something to ponder if are going to make viability and/or independence the standard of value. Even so, no matter how biologically dependent the fetus is on the mother, no one (again, outside of agenda considerations) questions that we're dealing with a living human organism.

Sources:
http://www.panspermia.org/whatis2.htm
http://www.prolifephysicians.org/lifebeg...
http://www.whatislife.com/principles/pri...

» Brian Tubbs - War

In response to War posted by pink101:

Those questions are appropriate for discussion - in a different thread of course.

» Migisi - War

In response to War posted by BrianTubbs:
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I would also accept this, if we could get abortion banned in the second and third trimesters...
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Why do you suppose some women might wait until the second or third trimester? Any ideas?
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AND even in the first trimester for casual reasons such as gender selection (they wanted a boy instead of a girl), etc.
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You've mentioned an exception to save the mother's life (favoring one life over another). What other reasons, if any, would abortion be OK in the first tri?

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - When does life begin?

In response to When does life begin? posted by BrianTubbs:
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AFTER fertilization and conception, we have a living human organism in the woman's womb.
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Have you ever heard of a 'blighted ovum'?
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A blighted ovum refers to the failure of the embryo to develop despite the fact that normal conception, implantation and growth of the placenta having taken place. The blighted ovum can remain in the woman's womb for up to 12 weeks.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - When does life begin?

In response to When does life begin? posted by Migisi:

Yes, and this would represent a situation where the fetus is already in effect dead - other than perhaps at a very rudimentary cellular level.

» Migisi - When does life begin?

In response to When does life begin? posted by BrianTubbs:
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It's not a fetus at all. Never was. It's the shell (pregnancy sac), but nothing's in it. No life. What keeps the empty shell in the womb for 12 weeks is a pregnancy hormone hCG.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Abortion Factors

In response to War posted by Migisi:

Migisi,

As a pastor and Bible-believing Christian, I believe I have to stay pretty close to respecting the value of human life. I can't see myself encouraging someone to seek abortion unless it was to protect the mother's life, to remove an already dead baby, and/or to end a pregnancy that had gone terribly awry (catastrophic health consequences to the mother, gross fetal deformity that make the baby's life untenable, etc.)

Now, if you're asking me as a citizen or hypothetical lawmaker, I would say that there needs to be a national conversation made up of several sectors of society to determine the most likely 'transition point' or 'milestone' when embryonic human life becomes a human life worthy of full legal protection.

Based on the medical and scientific evidence I've read, that "milestone" would most likely be somewhere between the 8th and 12th week - and CERTAINLY by the point of fetal viability!

I think the government should protect life after that point.

» Brian Tubbs - Empty shell

In response to When does life begin? posted by Migisi:

Obviously, I have no problem with aborting an empty shell, Migisi. I'm not trying to be unreasonable here. If doctors tell a woman that she's manifesting the symptoms of pregancy but there's no baby there, then OBVIOUSLY - abort the pregnancy. There should be NO debate on that one. None.

» pink101 - When does life begin?

In response to When does life begin? posted by BrianTubbs:
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The point of viability.
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The embryo is on a life support system outside it's own ability to survive.
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It seems terrible to me that abortion takes place and I would not want to lightly enter into any decision making that might lead to it.
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But, I can see situations where women are pregnant in which a marriage or a family might be destroyed. Bringing such a pregnancy to an end makes sense to me. Of course, if the embryo is brought to term, every option is changed.
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So, what changes once a live birth has been achieved? How does that first breath make such a difference?
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Abortion Factors

In response to Abortion Factors posted by BrianTubbs:

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I can't see myself encouraging someone to seek abortion unless...
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I can't see myself doing so either - not even when the 'unless' circumstances exist. I don't think it's ~anyone's~ place to influence a woman one way or the other. Offer options and education, sure. But it's HER choice to make. There seems to be a misconception (propaganda) that pro-choicers encourage and promote abortion (hence the wrong label 'pro-abortion'). I don't know any pro-choicer who does either.
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several sectors of society to determine the most likely 'transition point' or 'milestone' when embryonic human life becomes a human life worthy of full legal protection.
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But you've already said that you believe human life begins at conception and deserves protection. If the other 'sectors of society' (your medical and science experts) determine a different 'milestone' (say, after the 12th week) you'd still oppose it, right?

-- posted by Migisi