Protestantism

» Migisi - Presumptuous Myth

In response to Presumptuous Myth posted by BrianTubbs:
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It is preposterous to argue that the mainstream pro-life movement is motivated by a desire to control women. That's just ridiculous.
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Is it? The pro-life movement isn't motivated to control a ~~man's~~ body and his reproductive decisions, is it?
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The two of you don't have the right to presume to know what motivates my thinking or WHY I'm pro-life. I have a right to speak for myself in that regard.
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Are we 'presuming'? You've already expressed some of your reasons for being pro-life. You've already spoken for yourself, haven't you?
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I think it's highly disturbing (to put it mildly) that we've established a system whereby a person (man or woman) can unilaterally choose whether an innocent human being lives or dies.
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The established systems of death penalty and war do just that. But you justify war based on a Judeo-Christian 'tradition'. And yes, innocent people have been put to death by a very flawed justice system. Your 4 talking points failed them too.
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I certainly wouldn't presume to tell YOU why YOU are pro-choice.
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If you think you know, feel free.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - Woman's body

In response to Presumptuous Myth posted by Migisi:

I have no desire to exercise control over women's bodies. (I do believe in the biblical principle that husbands and wives share mutual ownership of their bodies - but that's a two-way street. The lesson there is sexual equality, not dominance. But that's not the focus of our discussion here).

I have absolutely ZERO desire to "control" someone else's body. But I do have a desire to stop someone from killing their child.

» Brian Tubbs - How Far Do You Want To Go

In response to How Far Do You Want To Go posted by pink101:

Pink, you're drawing a logical extension further than it needs to go. A person who is pro-life need not also be against all forms of birth control. Life is not present unless conception occurs, so what Onan did had nothing to do with killing a pre-born baby.

As to why God was offended at Onan's actions, that is for a separate thread. But it had nothing to do with abortion.

» pink101 - Woman's body

In response to Woman's body posted by BrianTubbs:
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It appears that you like to hold others responsible to explain their statements; but, you don't seem to hold yourself to the same scale.
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All right then, so when DOES the male gamete become the child you claim is murdered in the process of abortion?
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Gamete, zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, child? At what point is murder possilbe?

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Capital Punishment

Migisi, I am 100% opposed to imposing the death penalty on innocent people. I understand that some innocent people have been mistakenly killed, and this is tragic - and we should do everything possible to avoid this ever happening again.

By the way, I would consider myself moderate on the capital punishment issue. I think it should be used sparingly and only in certain circumstances -- and only after we've exhaustively established beyond ANY reasonable doubt that the person is indeed guilty of a heinous offense and would constitute a serious danger to society if ever out on the street again (either by release or escape).

» Migisi - Woman's body

In response to Woman's body posted by pink101:

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When does the male gamete become the child you claim is murdered in the process of abortion?
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Good question.
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Some people have sued sperm and egg storage banks when their 'genetic parts' were accidentally disposed of. They actually held funerals for their 'potential' children. Granted, a bit 'out there', but it goes to the question.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - War

I don't think my legal/political position on abortion is inconsistent with my position on war.

I have, in previous posts, acknowledged that society will never outlaw abortion across the board. I'm certain that there will remain avenues for women to pursue abortion in the event of rape, incest, threat to the mother's life, etc., etc. In fact, abortion for just about any reason will probably remain legal for the first trimester or at least the first 2 months.

While I morally disapprove of abortion for ANY reason except to save the mother's life, I am a realist and I understand that society will inevitably allow for abortion in certain circumstances. I would also accept this, if we could get abortion banned in the second and third trimesters AND even in the first trimester for casual reasons such as gender selection (they wanted a boy instead of a girl), etc.

LIKEWISE....

I oppose war. Believe it or not, I think war is a bad thing. But I am a realist. Human nature being what it is, war is inevitable. And as a practical matter, it is ridiculous to suggest that a nation-state can survive in the modern world without a strong military, an armed police force, etc. Wars happen, and when they do, we have to be prepared to fight them - and to fight them to win.

» pink101 - Woman's body

In response to Woman's body posted by Migisi:
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Logic is logic.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Capital Punishment

In response to Capital Punishment posted by BrianTubbs:

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Migisi, I am 100% opposed to imposing the death penalty on innocent people.
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Who isn't?

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - War

In response to War posted by BrianTubbs:
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And as a practical matter, it is ridiculous to suggest that a nation-state can survive in the modern world without a strong military, an armed police force, etc. Wars happen, and when they do, we have to be prepared to fight them - and to fight them to win.
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Interesting comments. Are you saying that every nation-state has a right to "a strong military, an armed police force, etc" to to be prepared in the event of a war to fight it to win? Your comments open issues regarding the questions raised such as the draft, mercenary forces, a professional military, and others, And, maybe the most important, how should a nation-state make the choice to fight any particular war?
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-- posted by pink101