Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Guns in Schools

When my dad was growing up in the 1950s, he attended a large public high school in Arlington, Virginia. And he was on the RIFLE team! And on the days when the rifle team met, he brought his rifle and put it in his locker - WITH ammunition! He and SEVERAL others did this.

There were NO school shootings ever in my dad's school during this time.

» Migisi - Drugged out killer kids...

In response to Drugged out killer kids... posted by paper_turtle:
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Regarding guns... I DO understand what you're saying. Any kind of weapon is dangerous and can be lethal in the wrong hands.
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Anything can be used as a weapon. A brick tossed off a highway bridge into traffic can be fatal. As I mentioned, box cutters can be used on airplanes as weapons. A broken beer bottle used in a bar fight can cause fatal bleeding. Drunk driving mortalities rank almost even with gun injuries. Baseball bats, pool sticks, shovels, wrenches, nail guns.. all can be used as weapons. Richard Speck stabbed 8 student nurses to death with a knife. John Wayne Gacey drugged and strangled 30+ victims with clothes line and phone cord. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't use a gun on his 17 victims either. He drugged and strangled them. Jim Jones killed 900+ with grape-flavored Fla-Vor-Aid laced with potassium cyanide and tranquilizers.
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We need to focus on the sick ~people~ who kill. Sure, we can ban guns, but that won't stop the sicko who's determined to kill. He'll just find a different weapon... say, poisonous gas released in the subway, anthrax sent in the mail.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Drugged out killer kids...

In response to Drugged out killer kids... posted by paper_turtle:
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One of my son's teachers had the gall to diagnose him as ADHD, and *insist* that we get him medicated.
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Good! You know first-hand exactly what I'm talking about. Now, what if that doctor had been the pill-pushing kind - like so many are today. Imagine the potential risk to your son, all the while you're thinking you were doing a good thing for him.
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Frankly, I think the ~teachers~ oughta be tested instead. I wonder how many of ~them~ are medicated, which might explain their irritability, impatience, and aggression.

-- posted by Migisi

» EvilChihuahua - Should We Talk About It?

In response to Should We Talk About It? posted by pink101:

After a tradegy in 1996, Australia issued stronger gun laws. While it has made it impossible for someone like me to legally own a gun, it has made Australia much safer.

-- posted by EvilChihuahua

» Brian Tubbs - Shooting

I know A LOT of people who own guns for sport. Not just hunting. In some cases, not hunting at all. They've never shot a person and have absolutely no desire to do so. But they love to target practice. They love to go to a controlled range or (if they live way out in the country) somewhere on their property -- and shoot.

When I was a kid growing up in Northern Virginia, my dad owned a rifle range. He taught me to shoot and to treat a gun with respect. I enjoyed those times with my father.

I hear what people like PaperTurtle and EvilChihuahua are saying, but I don't like the idea of someone or some entity (like the government - be it in the USA or Australia) telling other people that they should not own a firearm of any kind and for any reason.

Some restrictions are understandable - and desirable. But a law-abiding citizen should have the right to own a firearm and be left alone.

» Brian Tubbs - Concealed Carry

Virginia is one of the states that allows people to apply for a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The General Assembly however voted to prohibit concealed weapons (even for those who have permits) on college campuses.

I want to second something Migisi said. It's worth asking the question. What if one of those victims had a concealed carry permit and had been carrying a firearm?

Before anyone jumps on this...most states that have concealed carry laws require background checks, classes and training BEFORE issuing the concealed carry permit. And, of course, the person has to go through the background check process again when purchasing their weapon. It's a carefully regulated system that strives to insure only trained, responsible, law-abiding people can carry concealed weapons.

So, with that in mind, what if one of the VA Tech shooting victims had been so licensed and had been carrying a weapon?

I'm NOT laying the blame for the massacre on Virginia's Assembly or on gun control advocates. I truly am NOT doing that! But I think it's worth asking this question, as we discuss how we can prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future.

» redback - Shooting

In response to Shooting posted by BrianTubbs:

"But a law-abiding citizen should have the right to own a firearm and be left alone." Maybe if he keeps them in a totally theft-proof safe and if he hands them in when general safety reduces for any reason eg an application for an AVO from his wife?

Sometimes the capacity to define 'law-abiding' is in tragic hindsight. I read today the shop that sold the gun used in the current massacre blames the uni for not imposing gun control. Probably blames the user when accidents happen, the robber for breaking in and stealing guns from shops. Probably blames the police etc for not coming up with understandable restrictions ie those imposed on someone else.

The right to bear arms is part of a psyche that is not restricted to gun use. Re the massacre: "...But those deaths are unlikely to change America's gun culture because it is too central to the nation's identity...."

Crikey...what of the gun-toting person who...smokes? How crankier would he become to have both gun and smokes confiscated. I've seen some thin wedge edges before. Lots of things seem better in the "good old days". Re your anecdote, Brian...how do you explain the changes since your Dad's time? Less gun safety, greater proliferation, poorer attitude?

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - Roots

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This is another of those issues where the roots need to be examined.
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America is seen as one of the most violent societies in the world. ?? I doubt that it is very much.
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Yet, we ARE a violent bunch when taken on an historical basis. The problems our society faced coming out of the ninteenth century and into the twentieth were laced with violence on major scales. Worker strikes and general strikes were rampant and the way they were broken revealed our government's capacity for taking violent action against the people. I picked up a DVD at the movie rental place last night, Scarface. Violence portrayed in all its humanity.
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Maybe we will never know what activates a person like the Korean born tragically insane young man at Virginia Tech; but, we can see that he came out of a violent environment. I know he was too young to have ever experienced the violence that tool place on his native soil in the 1950s; but, it was horrible. Some of the things I heard about the violence there against individuals would make any one's skin crawl. We must be allowed to view the results of violence. We must look at the face of death and massacre. Turning our backs on it as though we cannot look at the horror is like sweeping dirt under the rug until the most obvious thing in the living room is the dirt mountain growing under the rug in the center of the room.
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Disassociation does not work.
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Certainly the gunman broke the law by bringing concealed guns on campus. But, that pales in respect to the greater laws he broke. He WAS able to get the guns legally even if he lied to do so. Brian has shown us that there is an attitude in Virginia that the people have regarding guns. I heard an interview on television with a man who claimed there is a gun culture in Virginia. The history of Virginia is such that all of us should understand. When I was in the Marine Corps, I learned that my rifle and my gun were for killing people. Maybe we need a rifle and a gun in our home and or business for denfense purposes; but, a Glock 9MM for sporting purposes? Give me a break!
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What are the conditions under which a person would want to carry a concealed weapon?
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How many guns have been sold to would be criminals in Virgina. The talk is that Virginia is the place to go to get a good gun if you want to rob a bank in the Carolinas or any other place along the east coast and a lot of criminals do. That's the talk--is it true?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Roots

In response to Roots posted by pink101:

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Phil wrote:
America is seen as one of the most violent societies in the world. ?? I doubt that it is very much.
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According to figures available here:
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http://hypatia.ss.uci.edu/istudies/peace...
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America ranks 42nd, with 7.9 deaths by violence per 100,000. (Note that the ranking goes from the lowest number of deaths to the highest.) The nation which ranked first was Norway, with only 1 death by violence per 100,000. Canada ranked 13th.
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We ARE much more violent than other nations. We need to recognize this, and take a good hard look at all the ways we, as a society, promote--and even condone--violence.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Roots, 2

In response to Roots posted by pink101:

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gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
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Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994:
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United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
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You can read the full article here:
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http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle