Protestantism

» pink101 - Who Else Would Qualify

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In Response to Brian who wrote:
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First, I question the statement that the President of the United States is the "number one top role model for all citizens in the United States."
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? I was brought up to believe that the president sets the example for every young person in America. As such, I believe that the actions of the persons who fill that role in our society speak to every man, woman, and child. So, I think President Bush IS the number one role model in America. I don't know who else would qualify; Jack Nicholson or D. James Kennedy?
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Second, I am unaware of Mr. Bush saying that violence should be used to settle "political disputes" in the world.
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My position is that his actions speak louder than any words he has ever spoken.
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In other words, I think he has set an example for us--by the war of agression he instigated in the Middle East--that when sweet talk doesn't work, we need to kick the living hell out of those people we decide are our enemies and or who don't get in line with our foreign policies. They're either for us or against us!
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Migisi writes, Pride is our necklace, and we clothe ourselves in violence. But the trouble we cause recoils on us, our violence comes down on our own heads.
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My goodness and of all things great and small. How eloquent.
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

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» Migisi - Who Else Would Qualify

In response to Who Else Would Qualify posted by pink101:
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My goodness. How eloquent.
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Indeed it is. I wish I could take credit for the eloquence. I paraphrased Psalms.

-- posted by Migisi

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» Brian Tubbs - Ahhhh...King David's fault

In response to We Are Inundated posted by Migisi:

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle." (Psalm 144:1)
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We praise the Lord as we pass out ammunition. Pride is our necklace, and we clothe ourselves in violence. But the trouble we cause recoils on us, our violence comes down on our own heads.

So...now the violence in our society is King David's fault. (David being the author of Psalm 144).

If you mean by this post to suggest that some have used the Bible to justify violence in more cases or situations than should be the case...I agree. If, however, you are trying to insinuate that the Bible itself is responsible for violence in our society, then I couldn't disagree with you more.

David's son Solomon said it best in Ecclesiastes: "There's a time for war and a time for peace." Some times, war is necessary. Hopefully, those times are rare. But when war IS necessary, it must be fought. That is the reality of life and society.

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» Brian Tubbs - Role Model

In response to Who Else Would Qualify posted by pink101:

Pink, you're mixing "should" with "is." In other words, you're projecting what SHOULD be the case onto what IS the case. Very few Americans look up to the President anymore as a role model. The President's role model diminished considerably under Richard Nixon, recovered briefly under Ronald Reagan, and has fallen ever since. Sadly, I don't think it will recover anytime soon.

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» pink101 - Role Model

In response to Role Model posted by BrianTubbs:
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Well, I don't see any reason to argue the point with you regarding the role of the president in our American society--all the way from our first president Washington to G. W. Bush.
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But, I do believe the president sets an example that Americans uphold as the number one role model. That's for good or for bad. Personally, I believe that going into war as a means of settling the administration's differences with a foreign state sets an example that many Americans will follow in their day to day interactions with others. "So! You hate my life style, huh? Well, I'll show you!"
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It might take a little mental energy to get a handle on the situation; but, I talk to many people who laud our president for his example of not putting up with any sh*t from anyone under any conditions. Mr. Bush's example is that people need to be single minded and not negotiate anything on anyone else's terms. It's his way or the highway.
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I think millions of young Americans are growing up in families where the mother and father revere Mr. Bush as a wonderful man who--after a long dry spell of liberals--has taken a strong and hard stand for conservatism. And, I think those youngsters are going to grow up with an attitude. Millions of young Americans!! Millions!!~
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I watched an interview with a grief counselor who was talking about what these college students have seen on the campus with so many dead. What in blazes do you think our young men and women who are being forced into war are going to experience in their life because of Iraq? Don't you realize what is going on in the world? Do you think it has something to do with Republicans and Liberals?
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You're the historian and I KNOW FULL WELL that you have an historical perception of war.
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An example is being set.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Role Model

In response to Role Model posted by pink101:

To be clear...I agree that the President SHOULD be a role model. And that it used to be so. What I'm saying is that it's not the case now - not in today's superficial pop culture.

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» Brian Tubbs - Partly agree, Pink

In response to Role Model posted by pink101:

I partly agree with you, Pink, in that I will admit there are some superficial, "red neck," right wing types who talk and think like that - and who draw inspiration from Bush along those lines. However, I don't think it's as widespread as you make it sound, and....

Your point could be applied to ALL of our war Presidents. You do see that, I hope? In fact, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to SHOW how many Americans adopted a very superficial "Let's get'em," knee-jerk, pro-violent mentality during just about all our wars. It happens. And it's happening now. That's one of the tragedies of war.

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» pink101 - Partly agree, Pink

In response to Partly agree, Pink posted by BrianTubbs:
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Your point could be applied to ALL of our war Presidents.
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It DOES apply to all presidents.
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The problem enters in when the main man method of viewing history takes center stage. And, I hope you can see that.
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What we have is an attitude that has developed that causes the people to look to their president as a change agent instead of looking to their own part in the creation of a healthy society.
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Christianity has moved far afield from the focus place on reality by Jesus and, for that, shame on its spokespersons who come to the public with stories of fluff. It has given great support to the politics of religionism in our highest governmental offices. A picture is painted that compares present day world events to Old Testament history of the struggles of the Hebrews to maintain a place in the sun. Now--a large voting block in the United States bases its choices on tests of the religiosity of the people in positions of power. That voting block may not make up the majority; but, it is the swing vote and it has effectively put America in very dire straits.
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You might not like to think that the president sets an example. A not so pretty line can be drawn through history to show that Mr. Bush represents a very ugly example of what it means to be an American at liberty. You have to know that. I might take it to an extreme; but, you have to admit that our president is not a man of moderation and that he comes with the baggage of the most powerful family the people of the United States have ever had in their White House.
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Violence is a way some people settle every challenge with which they come face to face and that requires power.
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Has there ever been a single human being with more power on earth than our president has today? Such power is frightening.
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-- posted by pink101

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» pink101 - Belongs Here?

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Maybe this post from "Gun Control" belongs here?
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This is another of those issues where the roots need to be examined.
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America is seen as one of the most violent societies in the world. ?? I doubt that it is very much.
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Yet, we ARE a violent bunch when taken on an historical basis. The problems our society faced coming out of the ninteenth century and into the twentieth were laced with violence on major scales. Worker strikes and general strikes were rampant and the way they were broken revealed our government's capacity for taking violent action against the people. I picked up a DVD at the movie rental place last night, Scarface. Violence portrayed in all its humanity.
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Maybe we will never know what activates a person like the Korean born tragically insane young man at Virginia Tech; but, we can see that he came out of a violent environment. I know he was too young to have ever experienced the violence that tool place on his native soil in the 1950s; but, it was horrible. Some of the things I heard about the violence there against individuals would make any one's skin crawl. We must be allowed to view the results of violence. We must look at the face of death and massacre. Turning our backs on it as though we cannot look at the horror is like sweeping dirt under the rug until the most obvious thing in the living room is the dirt mountain growing under the rug in the center of the room.
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Disassociation does not work.
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Certainly the gunman broke the law by bringing concealed guns on campus. But, that pales in respect to the greater laws he broke. He WAS able to get the guns legally even if he lied to do so. Brian has shown us that there is an attitude in Virginia that the people have regarding guns. I heard an interview on television with a man who claimed there is a gun culture in Virginia. The history of Virginia is such that all of us should understand. When I was in the Marine Corps, I learned that my rifle and my gun were for killing people. Maybe we need a rifle and a gun in our home and or business for denfense purposes; but, a Glock 9MM for sporting purposes? Give me a break!
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What are the conditions under which a person would want to carry a concealed weapon?
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How many guns have been sold to would be criminals in Virgina. The talk is that Virginia is the place to go to get a good gun if you want to rob a bank in the Carolinas or any other place along the east coast and a lot of criminals do. That's the talk--is it true?
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-- posted by pink101

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» Migisi - Ahhhh...King David's fault

In response to Ahhhh...King David's fault posted by BrianTubbs:
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I was paraphrasing the observations and warning of David here, Brian. Do you disagree with him?
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Pride is our necklace, and we clothe ourselves in violence. But the trouble we cause recoils on us, our violence comes down on our own heads.
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And here:
"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle." (Psalm 144:1)
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Do you disagree with David when he says the LORD trains us for war? Some believe the LORD is their commander-and-chief, and yes, they praise the LORD as they pass out ammunition.

-- posted by Migisi

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