Protestantism

» Migisi - It's truly a shame

In response to It's truly a shame posted by BrianTubbs:

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Ironic. I was about to reply to that, but got distracted.
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Cho was mentally ill. Anything he said in his manifesto MUST be viewed with that in mind, IMO. His mention of Jesus wasn't so special. A lot of mentally ill people believe they're doing the work of a superhero they admire.
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-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Sick kids...

In response to Sick kids... posted by paper_turtle:

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Absolutely, Paper. Back in the day, kids who 'couldn't hack it' (the pressure and stress) left school, or didn't attend college in the first place. But now, with psyche drugs to mask over and allegedly alleviate depression, those same kids are able to function in the college environment. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to ship our kids off to college until we know they're ready to handle adult life? I dunno.

-- posted by Migisi

» HeadZenCards - Finding God At VT

In response to It's truly a shame posted by BrianTubbs:

You blogged that the Bible does not present an image of a God who will prevent all violence, heal all sickness, alleviate all pain, and deliver from all evil - in this life.

Then who in this life needs the idea of God? It appears to me that only those who can profit or find comfort from the idea of a being who is all-powerful but does not use his power to help human beings in this life. In fact, 1 Sam. 15 says that this force once told his followers to murder children.

You continue by asking us to consider the pain, suffering, and anguish that took place throughout the Bible - including in the lives of the very people who were sold out to God! Consider the birth of Jesus. What a wonderful "nativity" story, but did God prevent Herod's soldiers from slaughtering the innocent children in Bethlehem - toddlers and babies that were killed on Jesus' account? What about the great heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11? These, according to the author of Hebrews, were tortured and killed - some even sawed in half!! - for their faith. The biblical image of God and His provision for the human race is CONSISTENT with what we see today. Thus, violence, suffering, disease, and tragedy does not disprove the biblical God.

True enough. It also does not disprove any other so-called God. Do you believe in them? The question becomes why we give any credence to the imaginings of primitive, violent, ignorant, ancient scribes who thought the sun went around the flat Earth.

More of your blog: Think the above point is a little "uninspiring"? Well, according to James, our present life in this earth is but a "vapor." Our reward is NOT here on this planet. That's why the psalmists tell us not to "fret" over "evildoers" who seem to prosper here on this earth, while the good suffer. Our reward is not in this life or on this earth (though we may and can experience some measure of good fortune and/or divine blessing), but rather our final reward is in the NEXT life. Our focus then should not be HERE and NOW, but rather LATER. Jesus warned that we are not to "lay up treasures here on this earth," but rather "lay up treasures in heaven." This doesn't just mean monetary treasures. It refers to all that you hold dear and that you cherish. Your focus should be preparing for the next life, not enjoying this one. And you must realize that you won't get all the answers you wish in this life. Some will remain UNanswered until the next.

If we follow James' line of reasoning here, there is no need to fret about anything. Global warming, nuclear weapons, AIDS, mass murderer at Virginia Tech, who cares? All that stuff just gets people to Jesus quicker. Who cares about living an independent life by getting a good job with that mindset? (Jesus didn't have any children, did he? Or none that came knocking on his door when he was 50, broke and hungry.)

You opine that "If you write a letter to George W. Bush and he doesn't respond, does this mean that George W. Bush doesn't exist? (I realize there are a few here who wish he didn't, but be that as it may). Does your inability to communicate with President Bush mean that President Bush is unreal? Does your inability to get an answer from God (or answers from God) mean that God is unreal or that God is a "fairy tale"? If God doesn't make sense to you, does that make God unreal? If Bush doesn't make sense to you (and, judging by the comments here - that's the case with a lot of you), does this mean Bush is no longer real?"

I see President Bush on the television, hear his voice on the radio, suffer under his administration when I hear of a neighbor with a son who recently died in Iraq. I have a fairly coherent picture of President Bush. I read about God in the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita and find no evidence that such a incoherent, contradictory force was ever active here on the planet Earth where I live. I also read about William Tell who was thought to be a real person for a long time. Myths have their place in the imagination and can fuel a human passion to create great art and literature, but great art and literature do not mean that the idea of God or William Tell are real forces like the all too-human President Bush.

Using your line of reasoning, just because you can't communicate with Krisna doesn't mean He's not there. It is so true, but so irrelevant.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» Brian Tubbs - Finding God At VT

In response to Finding God At VT posted by HeadZenCards:

Oliver, I put some italics in your post to try to differentiate between your words and mine. It was a little confusing otherwise. If you catch any mistakes or anything, let me know - and I'll correct.

I'll respond to some of your points in the other thread on "God and Suffering," because many of them deal with the issues we're discussing over there.

But let me respond to this argument of yours...

If we follow James' line of reasoning here, there is no need to fret about anything. Global warming, nuclear weapons, AIDS, mass murderer at Virginia Tech, who cares?

You're confusing "fret" and "care" - and you're misapplying the context. What the psalmist means about "Fret not thyself of evildoers..." is NOT "don't concern yourself with evildoers." That is NOT what he is saying. He's saying that, just because evildoers prosper at times during THIS life and in THIS world in no way reflects the reward they will get in the next. What's more? He's saying that if someone pursues wealth, then that may be the reward they get - but that's all they get (even in this world). There are a lot of rich and UNHAPPY people.

The Bible, however, most CERTAINLY teaches us to help those who are downtrodden and afflicted - to love and care for those in need. To be good stewards of that which we are entrusted with. And so on.

As for what JAMES said, he's assuring us AND warning us at the same time. If someone invests all their energies into amassing an earthly fortune and/or earthly success, he's saying: "Hey, your life here ain't that long. Don't invest in the temporary and forget the eternal." He is ALSO assuring those who are SUFFERING in this life that there's still the promise of eternity.

Again, though, none of this should be construed to suggest that we just sit back and shrug off evil and suffering.

» Brian Tubbs - Cho's Family Speaks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_o...

I hope that most Americans will not lay their rage and anger over this tragedy at the doorstep of Cho's family. Of course, I know that many will - and that's truly sad.

My anger toward Cho is kindled even more, knowing how much pain he's caused his own family. I have some friends who are in a similar situation - where one of their kids did something terrible. Truly sad that Cho could be so selfish.

» paper_turtle - Cho's Family Speaks

In response to Cho's Family Speaks posted by BrianTubbs:

What I feel for Cho, and his family, is not anger but profound sadness. My prayers for those involved with the kilings at VTech have included prayers for Cho and his family.
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A person who is mentally ill is *not* being deliberately selfish. He/She is not capable of thinking rationally, or considering anyone--including him/herself.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - A Vale of Tears

In response to Finding God At VT posted by BrianTubbs:
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Again, though, none of this should be construed to suggest that we just sit back and shrug off evil and suffering.
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As you've probably noticed, I don't pay a lot of attention to the detail in conversations that are not directed at me or in response to something I posted. Once in a while, something catches my attention and I respond. Recently I responded to one without reading the entire post and it appeared as though I agreed with something that I did not. Sorry about that.
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But, this post between you and Olive seems to be about God rewarding and not rewarding behavior in this or in the future(?) existence. And, I do have something to say about that.
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I'm not sure of Oliver's point; but, it seems to me that the enite idea about getting rewards in a future existence after one dies, is a bad idea. Some poor souls, not everyone, will decide that this life is a vale of tears and they just go along with that and suffer through it. Personally, I think that it is a bad idea to convince anyone that there is a piece of delicious pie in the sky awaiting them in the bye and bye. In another post there was some flack about living in the moment, etc. I think it is appropriate to point up that we must always life in the moment while we prepare and organize for the future--we should always be urged to work toward our best and most rewarding potential.
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Every person needs encouragement that they have a great deal to live for in this wonderful life. And, this poor sick sap, Cho, is an example of a person who--for whatever reason--was somehow cultivated to believe that what he did was something he had to do. There must be others who share in the blame for the person he was at the moment he made those terrible and fatal choices. There can be no justification for wasting a life--ever!.
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I watched a very violent movie last night, Scarface, and I paid close attention to the messages it sends to its viewers. Tony Montana is the lead role. He says, "I know I came from the gutter. I got no education; but, I know the street." And, at another place he says, "I got two things, balls and my word, and I don't break either one," and in another place he says, "I always tell the truth even if I lie." The author displays great insight into the human conditions. He helps us understand the roots of violent behavior.
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Pucino did a great joy of acting out the role of Montana.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - A Vale of Tears

In response to A Vale of Tears posted by pink101:

I think that it is a bad idea to convince anyone that there is a piece of delicious pie in the sky awaiting them in the bye and bye.

Well....it of course depends on the pie.

:)

Seriously, I see your point. And if biblical Christianity were completely made up (as Oliver seems to think), then I would agree with you, Pink. Making up a religion in order to hold out this "sweet bye and bye" promise is a bad idea - and one that lends itself to dangerous and sinister manipulation.

Of course, I don't believe biblical Christianity is "made up." Although I do agree that much has been made up ABOUT Christians and BY Christians over the years. I think the core fundamentals of the Christian faith are true - and that the essential truths of God, Jesus, Sin, Heaven, Hell, etc. are based on God's revelation and not man's imagination.

» Brian Tubbs - New Testament claims

To follow up my last post...

Pink, what the New Testament authors basically all say is that Jesus' resurrection validates the Christian claims of the after-life. Paul makes this EXTREMELY clear in I Corinthians 15.

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then Christianity is nothing more than set of moral teachings. As an all-encompassing religious faith, it's completely empty. That is IF the resurrection of Jesus didn't happen. That's what the apostles say.

» pink101 - A Vale of Tears

In response to A Vale of Tears posted by BrianTubbs:
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Even if we accept that all the various stories about the after life are true and that all the interpetations of biblical statements that are used to support those stories are being properly applied, I believe it is a bad idea to get people to focus on their after life rewards.
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WHAT? Is being a Christian about getting rewards and sitting closer to God in some great throne room on high? That idea totally numbs the impoverished into accepting their lot in life as being ordained by God. It is the heigth of tyrany in my way of thinking. And, I can see Oliver's point about it being used as a hoax to keep people down. And, anyone who has studied history knows that it has most certainly been used to that end.
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That's my position.
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-- posted by pink101