Protestantism

» paper_turtle - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by pink101:

That's what my sources indicate. It is believed that Matthew was derived from Mark. Matthew also contains material which is referred to as "Q" (an earlier collection of Jesus' sayings which is also present in Luke).
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by paper_turtle:
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"Q" for Qumran?
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by pink101:

"Q" for quotes.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Q

It was customary for rabbis (and preeminent philosophers in the West as well, for that matter) to have scribes follow them and take copious notes on what they taught. In Jewish society, accuracy was taken very seriously. It was the highest insult to misquote your rabbi. Jesus was frequently called a "rabbi" in the NT, and I think this signifies rather clearly that there were scribes/note-takers (or at least A scribe / note-taker) recording his teachings. Almost certainly, those notes constitute the Q source.

» pink101 - Q for Qumran

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Here's a quote:
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"HOW WOULD YOU HIDE A CAVE WITH A NUMBER?
"Somewhere along the line someone must have realized that it would be easy to hide a cave by playing games with the numbers. No one really understands the complexity and confusion in the numbering of the caves at Qumran anyway.
"The authorities identified the caves with letter designations like "Q" for Qumran. Then they added numerical designations like Q1, Q3, Q4, Q11 and so on. The numbers of the caves are arbitrary and have no bearing on their physical location. Nor are they related to the sequence or order of the discoveries of the various scrolls. This results in a great deal of confusion."
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Here't the link:
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http://www.vendyljones.org.il/ResAug1997...
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by paper_turtle:

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And what of John? Where does he fit in?

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by Migisi:

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Migisi wrote:
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And what of John? Where does he fit in?
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My sources agreed with what Brian said:

the original was composed long before 125-140 AD (the date of the Rylands fragment). Most believe the Gospel of John was composed and circulated (in its final form) NO LATER than in the 90s AD.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Concession

I'm conceding that the majority of New Testament scholars believe the Gospel of John was written around 90 AD. I don't agree with that date. There are two HUGE assumptions that liberal and mainstream scholars use to date John to that late date: 1) That Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD / CE - and therefore John had to be many years after that, and 2) That it took a generation or two for a "High Christology" to take shape - the 'myth' that Jesus was God - and since John is the most emphatic of the Gospels on this point, it therefore had to come when that Christology was in full swing.

These are PHILOSOPHICAL assumptions, which I will be addressing in my new series of articles. Needless to say, I don't buy them.

» Migisi - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by paper_turtle:

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That was also what I learned, Paper and Brian.
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There's also some argument that John was the only first-hand witness... he walked with Jesus and was the one Jesus loved. Mark was a disciple of and scribe to Peter - Peter narrated, Mark wrote it down. Matthew and Luke (disciple of Paul) collected material for their gospels using documents (esp. Mark's gospel) and oral tradition, but they were not a first-hand witnesses.
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Comments?

-- posted by Migisi

» Brian Tubbs - the writing of the Gospels

In response to the writing of the Gospels posted by Migisi:

Well, if Matthew the author of the Gospel of Matthew is indeed the disciple Matthew - then he too would be an eyewitness.

If we accept traditional attribution (the Gospel authors are indeed the men the early church said were the authors), then you've got two eyewitnesses (Matthew and John) and two second-hand testimonies (Mark and Luke). Although Luke and Mark may have observed SOME of the events first-hand, particularly Luke.