Protestantism

» Migisi - The resurrection as parable

In response to The resurrection as parable posted by paper_turtle:

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Yes, but I think "born again" often leads to the assumption that once some spiritual singularity has occurred every single flaw is instantly and permanently eradicated.
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Interestingly, I never assumed this. In fact, it was explained to me that being 're-born' is a long laborous process - like first birth. That resurrection is the immediate transfiguration, all flaws gone.
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-- posted by Migisi

» Brother_Jones - The resurrection as process.

In response to The resurrection as process. posted by paper_turtle:

Sorry about that.

One seems to be going from life to death and the other from death to life. I just never really thought of it as a process. Maybe it just has to do with the way I came to the Lord. Lightning striking from the sky on a certain day.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Bible

In response to Ancient Manuscripts posted by Migisi:

Migisi, the "Bible" as we have it today was compiled for our benefit. But, it is a collection of books. Here I have to point to LIBERAL biblical scholars who typically argue that some books of the Bible are more reliable than others. Only the most radical biblical critics say that the entire Bible must be rejected or set aside because of the difficulties or discrepancies in parts of it.

» Brian Tubbs - Gospel of Thomas

In response to Ancient Manuscripts posted by Migisi:

I accept the Gospel of Thomas as an ancient manuscript which affirms some (not all) of the same information contained in the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) that the early church embraced. I am saying we should consider it as an ancient manuscript not as canonized Scripture.

» paper_turtle - The resurrection as parable/process.

In response to The resurrection as process. posted by Brother_Jones:
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Migisi wrote:
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it was explained to me that being 're-born' is a long laborous process - like first birth. That resurrection is the immediate transfiguration, all flaws gone.
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But Jesus, before being resurrected, went through a very long, laborious process--beginning with trial, being rejected by his contemporaries and peers, being whipped, and crucified. In the garden of Gethsemane he prayed to be spared. As he hung on the cross, he fought against death. He cried out to God, feeling forsaken. And he was sealed away from the living for three days.
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Brother Jones wrote:
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One seems to be going from life to death and the other from death to life. I just never really thought of it as a process. Maybe it just has to do with the way I came to the Lord. Lightning striking from the sky on a certain day.
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:)
peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill

In response to The resurrection as parable/process. posted by paper_turtle:
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with using symbolism to emphasize meanings that are, otherwise, locked in words that don't paint pictures.
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But, denominational religion doesn't like the idea that individuals might get ideas that don't line up in strict adherance to a drill, drill, drill, drill, drill.
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Have you heard that pictures are worth a thousand words?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill

In response to Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill posted by pink101:

Let's make some distinctions here. Are there some professing Christians and/or denominations who want to keep their followers in line with a "drill"? Yes. But let's not paint with a broad brush here, Pink.

I honestly and truly understand Jesus to be saying that He is the "Way, the Truth, and the Life" and that NO ONE can come to the Father except through Jesus! That's the CLEAREST and most DIRECT understanding of John 14:6. When you add John 3, it become even clearer. Jesus is lifted up just as Moses lifted up the serpent. Jesus is the Savior. Jesus' example isn't the Savior. Jesus' teachings are not, in and of themselves, the Savior. JESUS the PERSON is the Savior!

That's not a "drill." And I'm not putting it out there to get people to line up with me so I can have more power.

» paper_turtle - Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill

In response to Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill posted by pink101:

Drill, drill, drill .... my first thought was dentist. LOL
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Have you heard that pictures are worth a thousand words?
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Yuppers --and I think Jesus was a "picture" about God, and relationship with God.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Except through ...

In response to Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill posted by BrianTubbs:

Yes, but Brian, just what does "through" mean, to you? It could have many meanings, and some of those meanings could imply something different than the One Way message I so often hear from conservatives.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Except through ...

In response to Except through ... posted by paper_turtle:

Paper Turtle, this "One Way" message that "conservatives" hold has been around since the first century. It's not a recent construct. It goes back to the time of Jesus and it was preached by those who KNEW and FOLLOWED Jesus (historical fact) - and, I would say, by Jesus himself. And I hate to even put the "as I would say" disclaimer in there, because the plain meaning of the language is there.

I respect the fact that you're an artist, and I truly do respect YOU. But this is where my frustration comes in. How can anyone look at text that clearly says X equals X and then turn it over in their minds to where it says X equals Y? That's reader-response theology - where the reader determines the meaning and can change it at his or her will. I categorically reject that. I want to know what Jesus meant, not what I want him to mean. I'm honestly not trying to be condescending or judgmental here. Please don't take it that way.