Protestantism

» paper_turtle - The resurrection as parable

In response to Nonbiblical evidence? posted by Migisi:

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Migisi wrote:
But just for discussion, let's read it as if it was a parable. What ~does~ the resurrection mean?
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My *personal* interpretation:
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We die to the things which keep us from being our highest self.
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This usually involves emotional pain and suffering. Eventually we reach the point of completely letting go.
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We then are (usually over time) "resurrected" as new beings, on a higher spiritual level. This inward change causes us to see everything with new eyes. We perceive ourselves to be in a new world, and we also look upon the past differently--what once attracted us now seems "dead."
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brian Tubbs - Fables

This desire to transform the Gospel into a literary metaphor and fable reminds me of Paul's warnings to Timothy...

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

--II Timothy 4:3-4

It seems to me that's what is happening here, although I'm certainly not accusing you of being lustful. Still, it seems that you were rather discuss the Gospel and Jesus' ministry in a comfortable, literary manner - and it does remind me of this warning from Paul. We shouldn't water down the Gospel message to appeal to the "itching ears" of the general public and change its meaning so as not to offend people. The Gospel is what it is. But go ahead. Discuss it as a fable - as a myth - as a metaphor. I'll stick to the real deal.

» pink101 - Fables

In response to Fables posted by BrianTubbs:
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Not sure to whom you directed your most recent post here. You did use the idea of "literary" here and that was out of my prior post. Maybe you were talking to me?
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Are you saying that showing America to be a living representation of one of the blessings humanity receives from the Gospel is turning the Gospel into a fable?
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Curious.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Nope

In response to Fables posted by pink101:

I'm saying that taking the Gospel and transforming it into a literary fable or metaphor - and then running with that - reduces the actual Gospel. For people to persist in that and refuse to then contemplate the real thing - that is most certainly an example of what Paul writes in II Timothy.

If a person wishes to confront the Gospel for what it is, but also occasionally uses it as a literary metaphor....okay. But let's not lose sight of what the Gospel itself was - in the mind of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave the Gospel meaning. We shouldn't take it upon ourselves to change that meaning.

» Migisi - Ancient Manuscripts

In response to Ancient Manuscripts posted by BrianTubbs:

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if we're going to reject the Bible as the canonized Word of God
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You already did that. You wrote earlier: "Migisi, I'm willing to set aside the Bible's supernatural claims to being the Word of God".
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then we have to treat the biblical books as INDIVIDUAL manuscripts.
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Why do we have to?
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Thus, rather than the BIBLE saying Jesus rose from the dead, you have FOUR manuscripts saying so - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
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The manuscripts, including the epistles, are still bound together between the book covers of what we call the 'Bible'. Proving the bible using the bible again.
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Five if you add the second century Gospel of Thomas.
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Are you, as a Baptist pastor, acknowledging the validity of the Gospel of Thomas? You know, since Thomas isn't included in the bible, we could examine it and other manuscripts found in Nag Hammadi library. Wanna do that?
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-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - The resurrection as parable

In response to The resurrection as parable posted by paper_turtle:
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We then are (usually over time) "resurrected" as new beings, on a higher spiritual level. This inward change causes us to see everything with new eyes. We perceive ourselves to be in a new world, and we also look upon the past differently--what once attracted us now seems "dead."
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Hey, pass me a Q-tip for my itchy ears. (wink)
Couldn't this be a description of what's called being 'reborn' or 'born again'? Is the resurrection a graphic picture and reinforcement of the rebirth concept?

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - Fables

In response to Fables posted by BrianTubbs:

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Brian wrote:
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Still, it seems that you were rather discuss the Gospel and Jesus' ministry in a comfortable, literary manner - and it does remind me of this warning from Paul. We shouldn't water down the Gospel message to appeal to the "itching ears" of the general public and change its meaning so as not to offend people. The Gospel is what it is. But go ahead. Discuss it as a fable - as a myth - as a metaphor. I'll stick to the real deal.
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What you said here sounds faintly patronizing, and more than a bit judgmental. I don't believe this was your intention, but there it is.
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You and I have vastly different ways of looking at the world. I am an artist--and a poet. I have devoted most of my life to writing and painting what is in my heart. I see every poem I write, every painting/sculpture/drawing, as a prayer. I see in symbols. I eat, drink, and breathe symbols. These symbols express very real ideas, very real feelings, very real experiences, very real beliefs.
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They are not just fables for children, Brian. And not everyone sees life from the left side of their brain. Some need to be spoken to in symbols, not logic. Some need to be touched in the heart, not the brain.
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Both are valid, both are real, both are necessary.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - The resurrection as parable

In response to The resurrection as parable posted by Migisi:

Couldn't this be a description of what's called being 'reborn' or 'born again'? Is the resurrection a graphic picture and reinforcement of the rebirth concept?

Yes, but I think "born again" often leads to the assumption that once some spiritual singularity has occurred every single flaw is instantly and permanently eradicated. My observation has been that change is gradual, and sometimes spiral in nature.
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And to me the resurrection implies a process which continues forever. We keep changing and growing, long after we leave this earth.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brother_Jones - The resurrection as process.

In response to The resurrection as parable posted by paper_turtle:

And to me the resurrection implies a process

Do you think cheating on a spouse could ever be thought of as being sort of like a process?

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» paper_turtle - The resurrection as process.

In response to The resurrection as process. posted by Brother_Jones:

Please explain what one has to do with the other. Cheating spouses is a sensitive issue with me, BroJo. I'd prefer you pick an different example.

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle