Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Mr. Brian?

In response to Discussion of History posted by Migisi:

You're behaving childishly, Mr. Brian

Did you ever serve as a schoolteacher, Migisi? You sound like it.

» Brian Tubbs - Bad week

Pink is right. I'm having a bad week, and I'm probably more sensitive and sharper than I should be. I do think there's at least SOME merit to my point, though. It seemed as if some of my points were swept aside and the response I was getting was essentially: "You may have your religious beliefs. You may believe the Bible is the Revealed Word of God, but not all of us feel that way." And so on. I got frustrated, because I wasn't using those kinds of arguments, so I don't know why you responded that way. This is especially the case w/ Pink.

Anyway, I'm a little stressed this week. Didn't mean to take it out on you.

» Brian Tubbs - reflux

In response to reflux posted by redback:

Hey redback, we haven't interacted as much. Glad you're here. Looking forward to getting to know you better. I appreciate the time you're taking in your thoughtful posts.

I've read The Case for Christ and the The Case for Faith by Strobel. Haven't yet picked up The Case for a Creator. My personal preference, though, is not to read Strobel so much as to read the guys he interviews. In other words, my library includes books by Ravi Zacharias (truly a GENIUS - one of the finest Christian apologists ever) and Gary Habermas and others. I'd rather read them directly, than read about Strobel interviewing them. Sometimes, Strobel's little asides about what the folks are wearing and how they reach for their cup of coffee during the interview gets a bit annoying.

» pink101 - Bad week--To Set The Record Straight

In response to Bad week posted by BrianTubbs:
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Just to set the record straight, here is what I had to say in this thread with typos corrected.
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"If your conviction is that God wrote the Bible in long hand, you have every right to believe that no matter what anyone else says or believes.
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"That seems to be what's going on here. Your religious conviction is that God either inspirered or [that He] specifically caused [His] unalterable truths to be expressed in the Bible [through various human authors]. [It can be] the Revealed Word of God or what ever else you care to call it.
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"And, as you say, 'nevertheless,' that doesn't make it so.
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"It's strictly a matter of opinion at this time in history. We can argue about its specific human sources such as was it written by a team of writers or [whoever]."
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I don't see that as being very upsetting to anyone. Maybe I'm wrong.

-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - reflux

In response to reflux posted by redback:

You might give C.S. Lewis a whirl or revisit some of his writings. A lot of sceptics enjoy his writings because he truly does not abandon his former atheist (a complaint some have about Lee Strobel) atitude in the truth search, and he has some amazing things to say from his own personal testimony by way his journey of atheist to English Professor to Christian apologist. In fact, nobody seems to write like him or express Christianity quite like Jack Lewis. He does take a very broad approach to the subject matter of what Christianity is all about, so readers cannot expect him to be looking for the coins that Judas made in the deal.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Bad week--To Set The Record Straight

In response to Bad week--To Set The Record Straight posted by pink101:

Pink, if you go back to my posts in this thread, you'll see that I'm building a case for the Bible as an accurate and credible source of history. You jumped several steps ahead of me and began responding to points that I have yet to make. Do I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God? Yes. Do I expect you to believe that? No. But I was trying to narrow the gap between us, by building a case toward some common ground. I was upset that you just sidestepped and swept aside a lot of the points I was making.

» pink101 - The Gospel Personified

In response to Bad week--To Set The Record Straight posted by BrianTubbs:
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It was not my purpose to side step or jump ahead of anything.
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I saw that you and Migisi were getting into, what seemed to me, an impasse on an impossible argument that appeared to me as a foggy area of confusion at best--historical records being what they are.
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My purpose was merely to point out that we could argue the point of authorship if that was our purpose.
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But, and even so, in all of that, there remains the idea that the Gospel has been personified by various persons and, in particular, one of whom described Liberty as one of the daughters of the Gospel. And, that person's ideas resulted in our Statue of Liberty that stands in the harbor of New York City greeting all persons approaching the harbor by sea--in the past, especially immigrants.
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If we are able to accept the metaphor of the Gospel in this sense, we can see that the line that created the Gospel held within its genetics, certain characteristics that brought forth Liberty and her sisters, Justice and Mercy. It's merely a figurative way of speaking that allows people to use their powers of imagination to magnify certain aspects of thought. Magnification having to do with the concept of worship, that is. Perhaps it is worthwhile to explore the possibilites of what it means to think of the concept of the Personified Gospel? It seems you have wanted to discount that idea so far in this thread.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - The Gospel Personified

In response to The Gospel Personified posted by pink101:

The historical record gets foggier the further back we go, but history is NOT unknowable. There is much that we CAN know and logically deduce from history, even ancient history. But, certainly, our knowledge is GREATER when it comes to more recent events.

Anyway, if you all want to go down the road of personifying the Gospel, go ahead. I won't interfere. I probably won't participate, but I won't interfere.

» pink101 - The Gospel Personified

In response to The Gospel Personified posted by BrianTubbs:
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Perhaps it would be more appropriate if you were to open a thread about the origins of the Bible and its various books rather than mixing that discussion in here with a personified Gospel? It does tend to confuse the participants when discussion get so far off topic. That's what Simon complained about, remember?
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - reflux

In response to reflux posted by BrianTubbs:

G'day Brian. I come from a career background of independently, objectively, analysing conflicting evidence...and to a high evidentiary standard. Whether this is helpful or a rod for my own back is simply truth-in-waiting. But I'm mindful of it...and I'm a fair dinkum Aussie dag.

Strobel's analysis presents one stream of thought, less dependent than his interviewees but not truly independent. A skillfull interviewer can direct the flow and cut the waffle but a too-interrupted interviewee can always claim the context was distorted. Kinda like selecting one verse or one Book from the Bible to make a point. Or interrupting the flow here.

If I had the same formal study as you, I'd probably be taking a different tack, too. We're all here today via different paths. Nearly 7 years in a Salvation Army Boys Home exhausted the Bible's coverage + knowing the friction between the process and the program of Christian theory over my lifetime, I look for wider sources. Strobel, for me, samples a range of expert opinion and offers me further reading or food for thought. An introduction if you will, to the topic. YEP...he presents "safe" chats over coffee, not 'debate' of the kind that used to be loved here.

My lifetime friend, who quit within inches of being ordained, is now studying Islam.

I think I have seen Zacharias on the Foxtel Christian Channel before or after the charsimatic Hillsong's Pastor Brian show? I recall now 'The Case for Christ' was given to me in one of those outreach-in-the-park programs where I kept my promise to read it. Then I bought the 2nd book on my own initiative.

For Brother-jones: ""Odd, the way the less the Bible is read the more it is translated."
CS LEWIS

-- posted by redback