Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - The day God went broke.

If my memory serves me, it was Migisi who last pictured a broken, defeated, passive, torn up personality who reflected godliness in response to Christians who aren't very happy with Pacifism. God seems to be pretty diverse when He chooses to be on odd days like Calvary, and He evens tempts those who worhip science and science fiction with the possibility of things happening in life that actually have some meaning in the spirit world.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by siminspain:
.
Simon, Simon, Simon.
.
Come on now, let's think this one out, folks.
.
There may be some people who have lived who deserve to be horribly punished for their terrible treatment of others over whom they have somehow gained a dominating power--murderers, torturists, rapists, usurpers, exploiters, and others. But, who does anyone imagines that by the mere chance of having been born anyone deserves to be found guilty of their distant ancestors' sinfulness and thereby to be condemned to spend eterning in Hell?
.
Come on, let's be reasonable. Give us some kind of a reason that you think there is any justice in that, anyone who believes it is truth.
.
Furthermore, how can you expect anyone who gives the idea any honest consideration to believe that a creator who willfully allows his only begotten son
to be tortured to death on a cross is some how a loving and just god.
.
Forget all the attendant magic involved, just address this honest concern.
.
Please.
.
:)
.

-- posted by pink101

» siminspain - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by pink101:

Phil,
You are just deliberately misunderstanding the situation.
You are accusing God of doing something inhuman. I am saying he did it because there was no other way - it must have hurt him terribly to do it, but he did it out of love to human beings who deserved punishment.

I am also saying it is irrelevant and beyond our understanding how different people died (Laurie), yes lots of strong believers were burned at the stake for example, what is important is their standing before God when they died - every single person - had they rejected God, were they living for themselves or for God, or were they forgiven through faith in Jesus Christ?

You all know this argument. It's not going to change. Most reasonable believers who believe this would not want to be judgmental about those who reject the message, we would much rather persuade them to change their mind.

I would have loved to speak to John Lennon, Marilyn Monroe etc and persuade them to change their mind, not to condemn them to death for what they said.

-- posted by siminspain

» pink101 - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by siminspain:
.
You are accusing God of doing something inhuman.
.
I'm not accusing God of anything. YOU are and your accusation is that [He] unjustly accuses every human being of a crime so horrible that every single one of them deserves to be swept into a Hell created by [Him] in which they will exist in pain and agony for eternity without end unless. Unless they accept the sacrifice of God's son in their stead.
.
I am saying he did it because there was no other way - it must have hurt him terribly to do it, but he did it out of love to human beings who deserved punishment.
.
No other way? No other way for what? For punishing humans for being born into a situation they never chose? Where does that story come from?

-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by pink101:

.
Simon wrote:
You are accusing God of doing something inhuman.
.
Phil responded:
I'm not accusing God of anything. YOU are and your accusation is that [He] unjustly accuses every human being of a crime so horrible that every single one of them deserves to be swept into a Hell created by [Him] in which they will exist in pain and agony for eternity without end unless. Unless they accept the sacrifice of God's son in their stead.
.
I agree with Phil. According to what Simon said, every devout Buddhist, Australian Aboriginal, Jew, Muslim, or what-have-you, is consigned to eternal damnation? That, to me is monstrous.
.
.

Simon wrote:
I am saying he did it because there was no other way - it must have hurt him terribly to do it, but he did it out of love to human beings who deserved punishment.
.
Phil responded:
No other way? No other way for what? For punishing humans for being born into a situation they never chose?
.
Once again, I agree with Phil. God's mind is totally beyond our complete understanding, so how can it be that he couldn't think of something which would give ALL of his children full acceptance into his household? How is it just (or even logical) for God to create us with free choice, and then condemn us for exercising this gift?
.
peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brother_Jones - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by paper_turtle:

I agree with Phil.

I'm wondering how small the world would have to be before you would agree with God sending Jesus to it. It seems you would agree with Phil if only the world contained one city like Jerusalem and you felt that it wasn't fair of God to send so small a sign of His will.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Hell

Pink and PaperTurtle, I trust in God's justice, mercy, and perfect knowledge (including foreknowledge). No one will be in hell who doesn't deserve it. See Romans 1-2.

» redback - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by Brother_Jones:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil I the Lord do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

If it hadn't been for Adam and Eve's catastrophic sin all those millenia ago, maybe the example may well have been the purity of the Garden of Eden, not tainted Jerusalem? I'm unclear if peace and evil were created in the first 7 days but I'm thinking they were gifts to Adam and Eve AFTER they left the Garden? Seek peace and it comes with a sting in the tail?

In any event, it seems pretty egotistical for anyone to believe they can tit-for-tat with the Big Fella. It's a guess that on the exact same moment that eg John Lennon died, so did countless others...along with bushfires, flood, plagues of various types etc.

Of course we all know something does not need to happen simultaneously to be a direct cause. Pink alludes to that.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - What Brian Trusts

In response to Hell posted by BrianTubbs:
.
Brian writes, "I trust in God's justice, mercy, and perfect knowledge (including foreknowledge)."
.
No, you don't Brian. That statement is represents a half truth and we all know it (including you). You are on the same wave length as Brother Jones, here.
.
What you trust is that the Bible presents us with "God's justice, mercy, and perfect knowledge (including foreknowledge)". Your faith is squarely and unilaterally on the idea you have in your mind that the Bible is the Revealed Word of God--nothing else. Other than that, you have no more of an idea about who God is or is not than any Muslim, Hindu, or me. You can claim anything you want to claim; but, everything you believe about God comes out of a book. If you can admit to that, then it seems like what you have to say will be given its proper weight. You believe the Bible trumps everything else.
.
Or, am I wrong about you?
.
:)
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Does God give as good as he gets?

In response to Does God give as good as he gets? posted by redback:

Of course we all know something does not need to happen simultaneously to be a direct cause. Pink alludes to that.

It is like the idea that I grew up with in my old church of upbringing that premarital sex was wrong because it might lead to dancing, which was totally off limits.

We get stuck sometimes thinking about how God is going to work all this out and the timing of sending Jesus into the world to save us moderns.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones