Protestantism

» pink101 - Evil Is A Concept

.
Evil has been around almost as far back in history as anyone has ever gone.
.
It is no respector of cultures as it appears in everyone I've ever read or heard about.
.
Our own culture is a good example and, so, we are able to be compared to every one.
.
Evil is a concept that, once it is indentified as existing in our relationships, takes control of our ability to relate with each other. Evil is a thing with spiritual value--it isn't a hard item like a rock or a person--even though rocks and persons have, both, been identified as being possessed by some evil.
.
Evil is "out there" away from our person; yet, we are able to allow it to enter into our being and to have some control over our actions. The fact of the matter about evil is that it is a force with which many of us believe our god must be invoked in order to over come its influence on us. Holding a cross up to a vampire usually does the trick; but, not always. Much depends on how much faith one might be able to put in such a display.
.
Generally, people who allow evil to come into their person end up being enemies of our god. So, like the Crusaders, we are able to slaughter such enemies without remorse. When we are able to see the person who lives next door or down the street as a stranger to us and in whom some evil has taken up residence, we can go to war against them. It is how we are dealing with our "enemies" in the Middle East. How should we deal with the enemy who lives next door and those we see in the super market when we're doing our shopping?
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Evil Is A Concept

In response to Evil Is A Concept posted by pink101:

Your post alludes to a couple issues....1) what is the proper way to identify and confirm that which is "evil" as opposed to that which might be simply distasteful to us, and 2) how do we DEAL with evil on a day-to-day basis?

That second question is addressed a lot in the New Testament. Jesus frequently admonishes his followers to "turn the other cheek" and "go the extra mile" and to "love your enemies." Paul, though sadly denigrated by many liberals and other biblical critics, also preaches this message of love in response to evil. He writes:

Recompense to no man evil for evil...avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:17,19)

The New Testament teaches that God will settle all accounts in the end, that we need not take justice into our own hands.

There is ONE exception to this, however....

It deals with the discussion going on in a different thread....

GOVERNMENT! In Romans, Paul makes it clear that government is given the "sword" to "execute wrath for judgment sake." That government is to punish evildoers and reward the good. Therefore, the government is, under certain circumtances, authorized to take life. (Romans 13:1-7) But we as individuals, acting as our own agents, are not authorized to take justice into our own hands or to "avenge" ourselves. Instead, we are called to love our enemies and turn the other cheek.

» paper_turtle - Romans 13:1-7

In response to Evil Is A Concept posted by BrianTubbs:
.
Romans 13:1-7 (NIV):
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
.
2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
.
4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
.
5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
.
7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of this passage. The government cannot be made a higher suthority than God OR one's individual conscience. To do so is to invite the sort of abuse practiced by those who have used civil authority to oppress and destroy whole civilizations.
This passage says nothing about allowing governments the RIGHT to take lives, nor does it say that government may wrest ultimate judgment from God's hands.
Further, to say that any citizen must blindly obey a govenment--even when this government is (at the very least) hardly an example of high moral conduct, is to say that we should turn a blind eye to evil.
Personally, I don't believe in the puppetteer God. I don't believe God established any civil government. If God put George Bush in office, then I have a serious gripe with God.
peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Evil Is A Concept

In response to Evil Is A Concept posted by paper_turtle:
.
How about a "Government Of the People, By the People, and For the People"? Who should obey THAT government other than the people who are the hirelings of the People--men like G.W.Bush? He has sworn to work according to OUR rules of government, has he not?
.

-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Evil Is A Concept

In response to Evil Is A Concept posted by pink101:

How about a "Government Of the People, By the People, and For the People"? Who should obey THAT government other than the people who are the hirelings of the People--men like G.W.Bush? He has sworn to work according to OUR rules of government, has he not?
.
I would agree with that.
.
peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - Romans 13:1-7

In response to Romans 13:1-7 posted by paper_turtle:
.
If God put George Bush in office, then I have a serious gripe with God.
.
Me too.
.
Does God only appoint Judeo-Christian national leaders, or does God establish the leaders of all nations? Did God put Sadam in office? If yes, then who were we to oppose God's judgment and appointment?
.
If Paul was referring to the authorities in his time... the Romans... how could Paul refer to them as 'God's servants' when they didn't believe in or serve the Hebrew God?

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Romans 13:1-7

In response to Romans 13:1-7 posted by Migisi:
.
Oh oh!
.
Now you've gone and done it. Don't you remember why God raised Pharoah up?
.
It's all according to script. Haven't you read the book, yet?
.

-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Evil Is A Concept

In response to Evil Is A Concept posted by BrianTubbs:
.
In Romans, Paul makes it clear that government is given the "sword" to "execute wrath for judgment sake." That government is to punish evildoers and reward the good.
.
Did God give the Romans his 'sword' to 'execute' the early Christians? They must've been 'evildoers', right? Did the Nazis have God's authorization to 'execute wrath for judgment sake'? Were all the exterminated Jews, Catholics, mentally retarded, physically impaired, etc. also evildoers?
.
Who is 'good'? Matthew 19:17 - "....Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
.
Therefore, the government is, under certain circumtances, authorized to take life.
.
Under what circumstances? One of the 10 Commandments Jesus mentioned above is 'Thou shalt not kill'.
.

-- posted by Migisi

» Migisi - Romans 13:1-7

In response to Romans 13:1-7 posted by pink101:

.
Don't you remember why God raised Pharoah up?
.
So, the bible says that God raises 'evil' people up and installs them into government leadership positions too. If that's so, then God is not all-loving and all-good, is he.

-- posted by Migisi