Protestantism

» Brother_Jones - Education

In response to Public Property--Jones posted by pink101:

Well, I can appreciate the example. We all want to be represented somehow and if we have to go to the end of the line, then nobody wants that spot. Maybe you should have focused on the idea that all religions have some very good things in common. At least in times like that, we can stand together against the atheists. lol.

I don't think restricting everyone's right to promote their faith is a good idea. I think the lesson that most people have learned by over reacting in the public school system to the religious question is the absence of any education about religious figures and the absence of morality. My mother kept very large pictures in her classroom of Mother Theresa, Gandhi, and MLK to inspire the kids to think about what these folks stood for. And she kept numerous scriptures from various religions available. And the students talked about all kinds of faith topics. But that was in the 1960's when things were much different in those day.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - Education

In response to Education posted by Brother_Jones:
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Christmas is part of the American culture and it includes Christmas Trees, ornaments, religious symbols, Santa Claus, presents, angels, and the Baby Jesus.
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Recognizing Christmas as a cultural event rather than a religious holiday has always been the norm in public schools as long as I can remember; but, there has been a big push--namely by the Knights of Columbus--to put Christ back in Christmas. That changed things when most religious people seemed to think that was the clarion call to hold revival meetings in the town squares of American society. That must have been sometime around 1959 or so. Maybe a little later. I remember the bumper stickers and the billboards. It was okay as far as getting rid of Xmas that was getting to be so popular in the department stores that were cashing in on Christmas so heavily. It seems, maybe, some groups decided it was time to leverage American society back to some level of religiosity and we been beleagured by religionists ever since.
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I'm all for the cultural celebrations around Christmas and Easter; but, things have been getting pretty thick for some time. Reasonable persons have to kick back or else we will be inundated with religion all over the place.
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And, another thing! heh heh heh.
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:)
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You gotta learn to laugh at yourself sometimes.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brother_Jones - Education

In response to Education posted by pink101:

Religious holidays seem to be a separate issue than daily living in the public classroom. Just because things become a part of the culture doesn't necessarily mean they are good for the culture. I have shared before that I came from one of those denominations that regarded no days as holy days. Only the Lord was holy, so we made a point to never mention the birth of Christ on Christmas or the resurrection on Easter. That may be overkill, which I now believe it was. However, it probably is more important that kids get involved in a daily faith activity rather than being a part of the crowd that looks to Jesus twice a year. I can't imagine what my high school would have been like if the boys and girls of faith had been discouraged from living their faith and letting their light shine through their testimonies.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» pink101 - That's B.S.

In response to Education posted by Brother_Jones:
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You wrote, "I can't imagine what my high school would have been like if the boys and girls of faith had been discouraged from living their faith and letting their light shine through their testimonies."
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The way that is coming across and within the context of what has been going on in these threads today, is that you believe Christians are being 'discouraged from living their faith and letting their light shine through their testimonies.'"
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That's B.S. if I ever saw it.
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We are living in one of the most religious of times in America's history, Brother Jones. No politician with any hopes of winning an election ever fails to say, "God Bless America," or to use many of religiosity's code words in their talks. You can turn on your television set and if you have cable or satelite, the chances are that you have anywhere from four to a dozen or more evangelistic programs available to watch. On Sunday morning that jumps by at least 200% and maybe more in some areas. All this week there are special programs hightlighting religious issues due to the Easter Holidays. We even have a television program here in Southwestern Michigan devoted to people giving their testimonies. In my 75 years, I have never seen so much religion. We are even fighting a religious war in the Middle East. It's been a long time since that happened.
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America is a nation with certain institutionalized values. So we have the Religious Institution along with Education, Government, Familial, and the Economical institutions. Each one of those institutions is broken down with its own separate rules and organizations apart from each other. One of our major problems in our society today is the institutional dysfunction that is being caused by institutions overstepping their boundaries and putting undue influence into the others. The Religious Institution is a MAJOR violator in this way as it attempts to impress its rules on all the others. Right now, we're seeing the government, religion, and the economic joining forces in a way that has the potential to destroy our democracy. We need to be vigilant. Not only will our society be destroyed; but, our right to freedom of worship will also be destroyed by a fascist state that takes over. You should be extra vigilant that you don't give up your long term interests in order to win some short term argument with your neighbors.
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When you pray thanksgiving, you should be sure to give thanks that you live in this wonderful secular society.
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - Education

In response to Education posted by pink101:

Two blocks away, there is an Anglican school co-incidentally with the name of one of our most iconic racing car drivers...Richard Johnson. (Three blocks, a Catholic school, 5 blocks a Muslim school etc.) One pays more to learn Christian values but there's no restriction on choice.

By law, there are water restrictions in place. The Anglican school has an exemption. In fact, their exemption notice confirms to date there are currently 78,322 exceptions to the rule. I think whatever constitutes a 'Christian nation' is kinda like that. The school has a total exemption even though it doesn't need it because the "system" can't cope with partial exemptions. As an analogy, the system breeds "water wasters".

The refusals to use school halls etc (sole exception is voting at elections) are global. The biggest driver of that seems to be insurance coverage, vandalism etc. If the KKK for example, wanted a public meeting here, they'd have to front up with the cost of the needed police presence.

We have neighbourhood centres that can also be used so maybe there is some Christian political pointscoring going on re the schools?

Happy Easter to you all!

-- posted by redback

» paper_turtle - Eco-ways 4 & 5-Brian

In response to Eco-ways 4 & 5 posted by paper_turtle:

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My response to your objections got buried under all the discussion about the schools. You can find it by clicking on the llnk above.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - Public Property

In response to Public Property posted by BrianTubbs:

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Brian wrote:
public property IS government property, right? It's either government owned or government controlled property. Right?
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Not exactly. Example: A military base is government property, but not public property, since access is limited to those who have reason to be there, and the powers that be have the right to place restrictions upon which activities are permitted within the base.
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Public property is designated as public because everyone has equal access and equal rights regarding speech, activities, etc (provided, of course, they are within the law).
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Government property may or may not be public.
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In my town the school has established rules which would not be allowed in the community at large (and probably wouldn't pass if put to a vote on town meeting). No tobacco is allowed. Adults may not smoke, even in their cars, regardless of whether or not school is in session. The same is true with alcohol. No firearms are allowed anywhere on campus--and this includes parents picking up their children. There are bans on pornography, hate literature, and even T-shirts which advertise beer, tobacco products, or other questionable material. Adults who bring these things on campus are asked to leave.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» paper_turtle - First Amendment

In response to First Amendment posted by BrianTubbs:

If you, Migisi, and Paper Turtle disagree with the Founding Fathers, that's fine. Say so and move to change the Constitution
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I was not an active participant in the *entire* discussion relating to religious activity in schools. I certainly said nothing directly relating to the first Amendment. I would appreciate it if you did not include me unless I have made a clearly attributable comment.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Brother_Jones - God and Justice

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Restrictions

In response to Kids in School posted by Migisi:

I'm not sure what they are, but I know there are some guidelines and restrictions in place currently that schools often use to differentiate between mainstream and fringe religions.

For example, the military chaplaincy does not recognize a religion or a denomination simply because a faith group announces itself as such. And the chaplaincy will not accept religious leaders off the street. There's a process of accreditation that denominational and faith groups must go through in order to nominate chaplains for military service. That process tends to screen out some of the more fringe groups. To date, it has screened out the Wiccans. (And that did survive a Supreme Court case). Then, the individual chaplains must be endorsed by their accredited denominational entity in order to be eligible to serve in the military as chaplains. This effectively screens out your P.O. Box preachers and those who purchased their ordinations online.

So, the government at different levels and for different reasons HAS put checks and safeguards into the system to address some of your concerns.