Protestantism

» pink101 - Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by paper_turtle:
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by paper_turtle:
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So, where are we now? Are we finished with verses 9-12?

-- posted by Migisi

» pink101 - Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by Migisi:
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Far as I'm concerned, we are.
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by Migisi:

I made comments on 4:9-12 when I posted those verses. Steve agreed with my comments. No one else has made comments on them (except for Phil's comments on Steve's comments). Does this mean you, Migisi and Phil (and whoever else) have nothing else to add, not even a note of agreement?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» redback - Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by paper_turtle:

On reflection, more effort went into verses 7-8 incl a response with Boanerges. Some relevance lingers, so I'll re-state:

"...Despite this, my first thought was the workaholic who does not give his family the proper balance so all miss out due to his folly. And all the countless examples that make up mankind. This same mankind who have had some clumsy attempts at agape love.

Kinda like the passerby who tells you the bleedin' obvious when you have a flat tyre. Kinda like the HMS Titanic monitor who coulda reported by the hour: "Yep, she's still sinking."

You kindly cited my subsequent summary sentence + suggested we read Ecc like poetry. Well...Banjo Patterson it aint. I understood from you Solomon was trying to get to a more positive point and I was not jumping the gun. (And I had promised Boanerges I'd read it all)

Re 9-12: I responded at post 461 with the helpful(???) results of a search for your forgotten Rabbi and what Twice-Pardoned posted about birds tied together:

"...Which in turn remended me of the saying of a rabbi (whose name escapes me..."

Was it Haninah ben Teradion?

Twice-Pardoned: I checked your quote (re what I call the budgies in bondage) and found this related one:

"One is taught in accordance to one's fitness to learn."

So I did respond in the context at the time. Trying to reprise our roles now is interesting.

Verses 9-12: Two heads are better than one...united we stand, divided we fall are universal truisms subj to the fitness test above. Always collect bigger friends than the enemies that surround you might be a cynical view of defending oneself in verse 12. Skill with words (reason) may be a better defence if outnumbered...or karate...AND isn't discretion the better part of valour? And when do we start turning the other cheek? Nope...underwhelmed by verse 12.

Optimum socialisation is probably better than none at all for achieving a goal of being a well rounded person engaged in 'society' whatever that means to one and one's relative need to 'belong'. And quality socialisation beats quantity. But isolation doesn't routinely equate with purposeless and despair, Solomon's main song here?

-- posted by redback

» paper_turtle - Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback)

In response to Chapter 4 summary - PT (oops) posted by redback:

Sorry if you felt left out. When we began re-posting entries as a way of getting the discussion back on track we mostly focused on summarizing or cutting/pasting our own messages.
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The name of the rabbi you gave doesn't ring any bells of recognition, but that doesn't mean your answer isn't right. The name is just gone. Three weeks from now I'll probably wake from a sound sleep shouting the name out loud, only to find I have forgotten it again in the morning. LOL
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But isolation doesn't routinely equate with purposeless and despair, Solomon's main song here?
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Sometimes people go to places which are described as isolated, to be alone and commune with nature (or whatever). But when a person perceives himself as all alone, and when he begins to cut himself off from all meaningful human contact, this isolation does lead to despair, which in turn leads to purposelessness.
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My intent is to comment further (in another, later post) on what you said about vss 9-12. Forgive me if I forget this too. (wink)
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» redback - Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback)

In response to Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback) posted by paper_turtle:

"Sorry if you felt left out."

Naahhh!! S'OK. I'm not a great user of the I said/she said "cut & paste". What I thought were the substantive parts of my posts always compete with what's used ie my throwaway lines get top billing. I'm used to it. AND I was actually responding to your request.

If I need to read 'purposeless and despair' anywhere within Solomon's sayings here, it's really a no brainer. Point is, I don't accept the argument that an atheist, as one example, must lead a purposeless existence. I keep an open mind. I just sense there is a fundamental philosophy underpinning Solomon's musings that fully intends us to view anything other than his philosophy, as pointless or ultimately fruitless. A person who believes in re-incarnation follows the path of that belief too.

I make the comment now as I'm sure 20-30 posts will pass me by.

-- posted by redback

» paper_turtle - Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback)

In response to Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback) posted by redback:

Point is, I don't accept the argument that an atheist, as one example, must lead a purposeless existence. I keep an open mind. I just sense there is a fundamental philosophy underpinning Solomon's musings that fully intends us to view anything other than his philosophy, as pointless or ultimately fruitless.
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I agree. Purposelessness is a state of mind *any* can inhabit--if they choose. And yes, Solomon does have a particular agenda. But his agenda seems much broader than the agenda of *some* Christians.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» HeadZenCards - Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback)

In response to Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback) posted by paper_turtle:

All this cutting and pasting is feeding my obsessive-compulsive disorder. You have been doing a great job, though (as I tap my left toes three times to cement the positive comment.)

What is your agenda here?

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» paper_turtle - Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback)

In response to Chapt 4 summary (oops--redback) posted by HeadZenCards:

What is your agenda here?
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Conversation
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learning from others & giving someone a new insight or two
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I don't have a particular POV re Ecclisiastes or how it "ought" to be interpreted. My intent is to remain as open as possible, and refrain from attaching labels.
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As I said to redback, I think Eccl is best read as poetry. Each time I read a poem I find something new in it--because each time I'm bringing something new to the poem. Same here.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle