Protestantism

» pink101 - Ecclesiastes 3:22

In response to Ecclesiastes 3:22 posted by paper_turtle:
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I will respond after others make their comments.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - Ecclesiastes 3:22

In response to Ecclesiastes 3:22 posted by pink101:
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I will respond after others make their comments.
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See my comments in my post #299 way back on April 12th. (click on #31)

-- posted by Migisi

» HeadZenCards - Eccl 3:22

In response to Eccl 3:22 posted by Twice__Pardoned:

Ecc. 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

-- posted by HeadZenCards

» redback - Ecclesiastes 3:22

In response to Ecclesiastes 3:22 posted by Migisi:

"See my comments in my post #299 way back on April 12th. (click on #31)"

I'll just read this one out now. But I agree with everything I've said previously.

-- posted by redback

» paper_turtle - Eccl 4:9-12

In response to Eccl 4:9-12 posted by paper_turtle:

Back on 1 May I posted Eccl 4:9-12. Only Steve responded to those verses. Phil responded to Steve's response, but not to the passage itself. No one else responded. When I posted that passage, I had assumed we were already well past anything in chapter three. ;-) Just thought I'd mention it.

(You can find the message re Eccl 4:9-12 by clicking the hyperlink above.)

peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» pink101 - Eccl 4:9-12

In response to Eccl 4:9-12 posted by paper_turtle:
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Sorry about my ignorance on what had been posted.
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The thread was polluted and I guess I just lost track and thought we still had that last verse in chapter 3.
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I will catch up soon.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Move On

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I've tried to catch up on the discussion; but, after going back more that 100 posts I'm no more caught up than I was before.
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I'll just sit aside until someone takes control.
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-- posted by pink101

» paper_turtle - Move On--Suggestion

In response to Move On posted by pink101:

Perhaps we need to go back to the beginning of Chapter 4. That seems to be where the discussion encountered major diversions.
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I would suggest each participant might give a summary (or cut and paste) of his/her comments about the contents of chapter 4 thus far. since Migisi opened the discussion of chapter 4 (post #317), maybe she would like to begin the summation?
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle

» Migisi - Chapter 4 summary - Migisi

In response to Move On--Suggestion posted by paper_turtle:

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Took some searching, but I found it. Post 371. Eons ago (April 15).

Ecclesiastes 4
Oppression, Toil, Friendlessness
1 Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:
I saw the tears of the oppressed-
and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors-
and they have no comforter.
2 And I declared that the dead,
who had already died,
are happier than the living,
who are still alive.
3 But better than both
is he who has not yet been,
who has not seen the evil
that is done under the sun.
===========================
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Solomon observes: The dead and the unborn are happier than the living. Neither suffers, nor do they see the suffering of others.
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Comments?
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Then I posted:
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Bothersome to me is Solomon's omission that he himself was the oppressor. He assumes no responsibility for their suffering. He had forced Israelites and foreigners, as slave laborers, to build the Temple, the city walls, storage cities, etc. I'm certain that those laborers would've preferred to be dead, or to have never been born, rather than toil for Solomon.
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And I provided my Jewish Virtual Library sources for the above when Pink asked for them.
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And then we veered off track.

-- posted by Migisi

» paper_turtle - Chapter 4 summary - Migisi

In response to Chapter 4 summary - Migisi posted by Migisi:

In the next post you said:

Bothersome to me is Solomon's omission that he himself was the oppressor. He assumes no responsibility for their suffering. He had forced Israelites and foreigners, as slave laborers, to build the Temple, the city walls, storage cities, etc. I'm certain that those laborers would've preferred to be dead, or to have never been born, rather than toil for Solomon.
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And I responded:
IMHO those in power may tend not to be aware of their own oppressiveness. Instead, they tend to believe that whatever they are doing is in the best interests of the people they rule. My sense is that the oppression mentioned here refers to the Babylonian exile. Compared to that, a ruler might find it easy to justify using slave labor to rebuild a vanquished country.
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One of my bible commentaries backs up what you said about the temple being rebuilt with forced labor--and goes on to say that there was resentment against Solomon during his rule.
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Solomon is assigned authorship of Ecclesiastes through tradition, but there is some question about this. If Solomon didn't write Ecclesiastes, then Qoheleth could have been referring to Solomon's reign as an outsider.
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On the other hand, there's a possibility that at least some of those who toiled at building the temple felt they were doing something extremely worthwhile according to their religious and political values. The temple was a powerful symbol of the identity of the Jewish people. We don't have anything, today, which really compares with it.
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peace and love,
Paper Turtle

-- posted by paper_turtle