Protestantism

» _Boanerges_ - theories?

In response to theories? posted by _Boanerges_:
go Chiefs.... woo hoo!!..

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - George Washington

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I certainly haven't posted anything to cut down George Washington. He was first in the hearts of his countrymen and I think I have upheld that.
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But, I resent the put down on the common men of the American colonies who met under the Liberty Trees from Boston on out across the land. Men who rallied to the cause of liberty. Men like my Yankee ancestor who was one of them--a true Son of Liberty. There were many individuals who stood fast for liberty. Men who didn't own large plantations with more than a hundred slaves to work their land. Without the Boston Nine there may not have been an America that we know today--there may not have been a base upon which George Washington could call. The tyranny of the Brits were the driving force that fueled the great Revolutionary insurgency. Men who believed they had rights to stand against the tyrant--men who bled and died for you and me.
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Even so, George Washington was a great man and a natural born leader.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - ERATA

In response to George Washington posted by pink101:
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This line:
The tyranny of the Brits were the driving force that fueled the great Revolutionary insurgency.
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should have read:
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The tyranny of the Brits was the driving force that fueled the great Revolutionary insurgency.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Common man

In response to ERATA posted by pink101:

George Washington HIMSELF would never approve of a record of history that would strip away the pivotal role of the common men and women of that era.

But, Pink, LEADERSHIP is the key to history. I'm not putting anyone down, including your ancestor. But...let's face it...they needed good, solid leadersip to accomplish what they did - and of all the leaders, GW was the most indispensable.

But let's not limit this to GW. I think also of our 16th President, who I would say was indispensable to the preservation of the Union. OF COURSE...so was the Union army and so were those who kept the home front and on and on. BUT....leadership was key. Had Lincoln not been as perservering and as effective in marshaling public support, the Confederate secession would have been at least partially successful - and history would've been greatly changed.

I think of Eisenhower in World War II. There were very, very, very FEW leaders who could've as effectively and brilliantly coordinated the personnel, resources, and EGOs of the Allied cause to defeat Nazi Germany.

I could go on and on. Leadership is critical. And while I think our history books should acknowledge and celebrate the contributions of the common man and woman - our history should continue to EMPHASIZE our leaders.

» pink101 - Common man

In response to Common man posted by BrianTubbs:
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You have a point, I agree on that. There is some truth to what you're saying.
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But, indispensible? Sooner or later, leaders come along who are seen as prime movers; but, they would do jack without a base. You cannot have leaders without followers.
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Look! Our current president is losing his followers in droves. He will completely lose his leadership role unless he turns to gather new followers.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Bush

In response to Common man posted by pink101:

I would suggest that our current President is a prime example of how individual leaders play an enormous role in shaping history. Would we be in Iraq today had Al Gore won the presidential election of 2000? I seriously doubt it. We are in Iraq because of George W. Bush. Thus, I could say (could I not?) that George W. Bush was "indispensable" to the US invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam Hussein. You obviously don't consider that a good thing, but I think I've made my point.

» Brian Tubbs - Parade

In response to Common man posted by pink101:

...they would do jack without a base

Absolutely correct! And THAT speaks to the mark of a true leader. Who can cultivate a base of support to accomplish certain ends? The more effective such a leader is in energizing and organizing a base AND the more significant the ends to which he/she strives, the more pages he/she merits in our history books.

» pink101 - Bush & Parade

In response to Bush posted by BrianTubbs:
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Would we be in Iraq today had Al Gore won the presidential election of 2000? I seriously doubt it. We are in Iraq because of George W. Bush.
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Like someone used to say around here, BINGO!!
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That's why we're there all right. And, so, you have proven the part of your point with which I am in agreement. The part you seem to be missing is that he wouldn't have been able to make that choice if it hadn't been for his followers--the people who authorized him to go there and the ones who are truly responsible for his behavior.
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And, now, I've read your second post that responds to mine up above.
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But, Bush lied to get where he is. So, then, it would seem that a true leader must lie sometimes. Thing about George Washington was that he couldn't tell a lie. And that sort of relates to some other arguments you tried to make in another thread. I see that as a sort of retro-engineering process.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Parade

In response to Bush & Parade posted by pink101:

By the way, I titled one of my posts "parade" because of a story that I meant to write, but butchered it so bad (I couldn't remember it) that I took it out. And then didn't change the title. Anyway, it's a joke about a guy that's getting run out of town by an unruly mob. He decides to get out in front of the mob and march proudly - as if it were a "parade." It was some kind of anecdote on leadership that's been told a few times.

» pink101 - Parade

In response to Parade posted by BrianTubbs:
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Those guys are coming out of the woodwork right now. Going against the Iraq War, Bush, Rumsfield, Cheney, Neoconservatism, et al is the banner they fly. Where were they when the administration first began unfolding their plans for the future? Watch Hilary Clinton as she tries to wriggle out of the box she is in and see the surgical skills of McCain as he reaches for a following.
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I doubt if the next president is even on the horizon as of now. But, the power brokers are out in full force. That's the way political parties have learned to dupe the American electorate. How fickle we are.
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-- posted by pink101