Protestantism

» pink101 - Approaching History

In response to Approaching History posted by BrianTubbs:
.
I can take exception to much of what you wrote. But, why?
.
Maybe you'd give us all a nice clear definition of postmodernism since you are so opposed to it. I mean, you must have a very clear view of it. So, Brian, what is postmodernism?
.
You apparently like to study history from how it is recorded in some book or books. You might even go so far as to research libraries and find old newspapers to see what led up to some event or another. But, so what? You are always looking at whatever is reported through the eyes of some reporter. I can imagine some fourth generation descendant of yours trying to figure out what took place in the middle east by watching video clips of the great Bill O'Reilly as he spouts forth in his no spin zone.
.
You seem pretty much tied into a particular perspective on history. Nothing short of an epiphany is going to change your mind about anything.
.
There is a concept known as cognitive dissonance. Perhaps you know about it. You are a person who is described as decisional. You have made your mind up and that is all there is to it. You are a lot like Wendell and Brother Jones in that respect. The only evidence you are able to accept is that which gives support to the choices you have already made.
.
There's a lot to be said for that characteristic. You're probably quite good at goal achievement. You are able to focus in on specific tasks and to stay on track with relative ease.
.
Me? I haven't made my mind up. I used to have a pretty clear view of reality; but, that got blown away by a sequence of events that forced me to admit to the fact that I had taken the easy road. I've seen too much hypocrisy in too many people who have thoroughly believed they were believers. They didn't shake my beliefs one bit. But, I did take some good advice about seeking, finding, knocking, and asking while I put heavy faith in the fact that I would learn something. Sooner or later, Brian, it falls apart. But, that doesn't mean that we stop seeking or asking.
.
You ever read Shakespeare, Brian? Know who Polonius is? Know about his son, Leatres? Remember the talk Polonius gave to him just before he went off to university?
.
Good advice.
.
I don't think life is about being right. It's more about being at one with the Supreme Force of all creation while we are in unity with each other.
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Goals

In response to Approaching History posted by pink101:

You're probably quite good at goal achievement. You are able to focus in on specific tasks and to stay on track with relative ease.

Oh man....if ONLY that were true. :-)

» Brian Tubbs - Shakespeare

In response to Approaching History posted by pink101:

Yes, I have read Shakespeare. MacBeth and Julius Caesar are my favorites. The Old English is a little rough for me sometimes, but then again, I grew up on the King James Bible. So, it's not entirely foreign to me.

» Brian Tubbs - Postmodernism

In response to Approaching History posted by pink101:

Postmodernism is not easily defined. It is highly controversial even among postmodernists. And this is not surprising considering the premise of postmodernism is a critique of reality and truth as traditionally understood.

I suppose that is the best way to see postmodernism. It is essentially a CRITIQUE of the values and definitions arrived at in society via science, philosophy, religion, etc. The critique is based on (broadly speaking) two premises:

1. That human beings are inherently subjective and therefore the discovery of objective truth via human beings is impossible

2. The traditional framework within which truth, fact, reality, etc. are measured in society (be it in the fields of science, philosophy, religion, etc) typically DISADVANTAGES women, ethnic minorities, third-world peoples, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Have I come pretty close, Pink?

p.s. Oh, and you seem to celebrate open-mindedness as inherently a good thing to the point that you criticize those who do, at some point, come to conclusions. Some things ARE true - and warrant being close-minded on. We exist. We live on planet Earth. Earth is round. The sun is bright. Gravity is real. 2+2=4. And so on. Some things are, in fact, true - and no postmodern critique can call them into question. Nor should it.

p.p.s. And you're wrong that I don't consider evidence in coming to my conclusions - or, as you put, only certain evidence that supports my desired conclusion. That conclusion of YOURS is absolutely incorrect. I have adjusted my views on issues over the years, due to new facts. This is even the case with respect to my theology. It most certainly is the case with my political ideology.

» pink101 - You Are a Postmodern

In response to Postmodernism posted by BrianTubbs:
.
Your post shows that you, yes even you, are a postmodern. We all are except for those who have gone completely bonkers and who live in some strange world that denies the reality of the day. Reread the first part of your post.
.
Right. Postmodernism is not easily defined. Jacques Derida is credited as an original thinker in the thinking. His main contribution appears (to me) to be that of decontexualization--taking things apart to see what makes them tick. It is the natural outcome of the criticism that grows out of modernism.
.
My experience is that when we get our knowledge from others and out of books, we are not our own persons. We have to learn to experience life for our own being. But, there is always a clearing up ahead, isn't there? Maybe? What's that, existentialism? And, aren't we influenced more and more by what is going on all over the world? What's that, multiculturalism? And, when it's all thrown in together in one basket, what's that, postmodernism? That would be us, wouldn't it?
.
The idea that a person doesn't consider evidence that doesn't support their primary choices/decisions is part of the Cognitive Dissonance theory. I guessed that you have made a primary decision in your life about the Bible--that it is the absolute truth as revealed by God. Are you saying that my guess about you is wrong? Do you not clear everything based on your understanding of the Bible? Do you allow anything whatsoever to supersede the Bible?
.

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Cognitive Dissonance

In response to You Are a Postmodern posted by pink101:

I guessed that you have made a primary decision in your life about the Bible--that it is the absolute truth as revealed by God. Are you saying that my guess about you is wrong?

A fair question - and it deserves an honest answer. There have been points in my life where I did put the Bible on the table and have asked (genuinely), "Is it true?" I think the early Christians (Paul for example) ENCOURAGED this. We need to test our faith, to study to show ourselves "approved unto God" so that we need not be "ashamed." So, yes, there have been times when I've gone through questioning periods - when I've put all my beliefs (incl those about God and the Bible) under the microscope.

» _Boanerges_ - theories?

In response to You Are a Postmodern posted by pink101:
The idea that a person doesn't consider evidence that doesn't support their primary choices/decisions is part of the Cognitive Dissonance theory

80-90% of all scientific discovery came in the late 20th century. For some, such as yourself, you were able to witness all in your lifetime...

Acts 17:26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Cognitive Dissonance

In response to Cognitive Dissonance posted by BrianTubbs:
.
So, then, when you read about the Grand Canyon being carved out as a result of the flood from which Noah was saved, how do you deal with that? Just rhetorical--doesn't require an answer.
.
I watched a good part of Harlow Unger on C-Span this morning as he talked about his book on George Washington.
.

-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - theories?

In response to theories? posted by _Boanerges_:
.
You can't have it both ways, big guy.
.
It's either predeterminist or free will--one or the other.
.
And, if it's predetermined, what's the point of life?
.

-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - theories?

In response to theories? posted by pink101:
And, if it's predetermined, what's the point of life?

free-will!

-- posted by _Boanerges_