Protestantism

» pink101 - Thomas Paine

In response to Thomas Paine posted by BrianTubbs:
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Like I wrote, I don't want an argument.
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You seem bent on first causes and 'necessaries' in certain areas.
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Are you denying that the work of Paine laid the groundwork on which others stood?
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Pretty much, my comment about Paine are that he was the spokesperson who made the cause popular among the people. From what I remember reading of American history, most Americans were quite content with the idea of being British before Paine.
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I know Paine and Washington ended up at odds with each other. Washington is seen as the Father of Our Country. I don't have any problems with that. I suppose that Christmas in 1776 could have seen the failure of George Washington if the troops hadn't been rallied. As it was, it was the first victory that changed the war, wasn't it?
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Paine as First Cause?

In response to Thomas Paine posted by pink101:

If your position is that Thomas Paine is the first cause of American independence, that is easily refuted. Paine didn't come to American shores until revolutionary zeal was already taking hold. What Paine did was take sentiments already out there - and fashion them into a compelling argument that resonated with the masses. I'm not taking anything away from that, but he hardly deserves to be credited with stirring up those sentiments to begin with.

If you want a "first cause" Founder, a much, MUCH stronger argument can be made for Sam Adams - who founded the Sons of Liberty, the Committees of Correspondence, and published some of the most influential pamphlets on American grievances and aspirations LONG BEFORE Paine ever came to America!

Key supporting players (along with Sam Adams and more influential than Paine in stirring up pro-revolutionary zeal) were James Otis, John Hancock, Patrick Henry, and John Adams.

So....I'm sorry, Pink, you're way over-inflating Paine's role. The facts of history don't support it.

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» Brian Tubbs - Paine in 1776

In response to Thomas Paine posted by pink101:

We can't know for certain, but I don't think Paine was indispensable to Washington's victory at Trenton. It was Washington that decided to attack, not Paine. Paine provided a significant morale boost to the troops - no question about that, but here again, his role is overrated. What about all the chaplains that GW brought into the army? That was among the MAIN reasons GW started the chaplain corps. - keep the troops focused on God and country, keep them believing in each other and the cause and a just God presiding over their affairs. These chaplains (and there were many) played a huge part in keeping the Revolutionary cause and the army going. Was Paine more influential than they?

What about the Martha Washington - who came into camp often during the winters and organized the officers' wives into sewing mittens and making shoes for the men? Did you know that the Continental Army soldiers WORSHIPPED the ground Martha Washington walked on? When GW was inaugurated President, he traveled ahead of Martha. There was a HUGE state welcome for him when he came to New York. Martha came later, and guess who turned out to greet her and give her the proper "pomp and circumstance"? Answer: Revolutonary War veterans!

What about the spy network that GW put into place to sabotage and confuse the British? GW's agents had the Hessians CONVINCED that the Continentals were finished - were NO threat whatsoever to them. Which is why the Hessians were unprepared for the Christmas crossing of the Delaware and attack on Trenton.

Thomas Paine played a big role, but he was far from indispensable. Admire him all you want, but don't blow him out of proportion.

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» Brian Tubbs - Focus on GW

And finally, this thread began with GW in focus. My point was that Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation says a lot about what he (GW) felt about Thanksgiving, about God's role in American history, and what our relationship (as individuals and as citizens) should be toward God.

You're shifting the focus to Thomas Paine, but that does nothing to counter my points on Washington. Migisi (in a different thread) calls GW a Deist. If he was, then he's my kind of Deist. :-)

George Washington's position on God in the public square and our relationship with God is much different from yours, Migisi's, and the ACLU's.

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» Brian Tubbs - Maybe...

In response to Thomas Paine posted by pink101:

....(since you want to talk Tom Paine) I'll dust off my copy (more like an Internet file) of Age of Reason - and do a review of it. That should make for an interesting discussion of Mr. Paine's religious views.

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» pink101 - Maybe...

In response to Maybe... posted by BrianTubbs:
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I'll be interested in what you have to say.
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Maybe I'll get Craig Nelson's book on the subject if you're serious about hosting a discussion.:
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http://craignelson.us/tompaine.html
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-- posted by pink101

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» pink101 - December 14

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Thanks for that timely article on the Father of Our Country.
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Do grade schools still pay as much attention to George Washington as we did when I was a child?
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-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - December 14

In response to December 14 posted by pink101:

I wish.

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» pink101 - Testing

In response to December 14 posted by BrianTubbs:
Testing.
Notice that in the discussions menu, all the threads listed below the ". religious book" thread are in italics. Those above it are not italicized.
This is a test to see if that is true.

And, yes, it is true. There is a problem with the page, not just a single thread.

-- posted by pink101

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» Brian Tubbs - Testing

In response to Testing posted by pink101:

Thanks for calling this to my attention, Phil. I appreciate it. I went into the editor tools and it looks like it's fixed.

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