Protestantism

» Migisi - Waco cult - Branch Davidians

In response to Waco cult posted by pink101:

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Sorry...this is kinda long, but it's helpful in revealing the beliefs of the sect.
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http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.e...
(quotes)
"Beliefs of the Group
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"The Branch Davidians "embrace the core teachings of the Seventh-Day Adventists." The SDA Church follows most of the conservative Christian beliefs: creation, original sin, the virgin birth, the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden, the divinity of Christ, the Trinity, belief in Satan as evil, the infallibility of Scripture, salvation by the atonement of Christ, etc. (Seventh-Day Adventist Church)
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"Their beliefs, however, do depart from traditional Christian doctrine on several important points. Three major doctrinal differences exist. First, the written word of Ellen White is considered to be inspired by God and thus an authoritative source of truth. Secondly, they deny the concept of "innate mortality". They believe that when someone dies they remain unconscious until they are either resurrected into eternal life with God, which is only given to righteous Christians, or annihilated. Third, they believe that the second coming of Christ is imminent. Following the Second Coming believers who had previously died will be resurrected and taken to heaven and for the next 1000 years only Satan and his angels will live on earth. A second resurrection will occur and the righteous will return to a newly cleansed earth and establish the New Jerusalem. The unrighteous who died before the Second Coming will be consumed by fire, along with Satan and his angels. (Seventh-Day Adventist Church)
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"In addition to these three doctrinal differences between SDA and conventional Christianity, there are also important behavioral differences. First, Seventh-Day Adventists observe the Sabbath on Saturday. Second, they strongly emphasize health, specifically vegetarianism. Third, they believe in conscientious objection with regard to military service. prophecy and fulfillment, he [Houteff] extensively utilized the Old Testament and the Book of Revelation. In true "millenarian" tradition, Houteff interpreted current events as signs of the end of time. Emphasizing that truth is gradually revealed over time, Houteff referred to his teachings as the "Present Truth." Houteff focused on establishing a true church of 144,000 believers and unlocking the biblical secrets because he believed the end was near.
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"Ben Roden succeeded Houteff and built on the ideas of those who preceded him. Under Roden, the Branch Davidians created a logo to represent their beliefs. It was a circular field filled with a star of David and twelve perimeter stars. "Ensign" was written across the center and the reference "Isaiah 11:1" was placed underneath it. Superimposed upon the design was a plant with three designations: Jesse the Stem, David the Rod, and Christ the Branch. Roden saw himself as the leader of the final phase of the movement. The goal was to reproduce the character of Christ in the lives of the elect 144,000 in preparation for the Second Coming; an idea referred to as Adventist perfectionism. In his writings, Roden focused on anti-Catholicism, recovery of Israelite festivals, and General Conference reform. His intention was to create a Branch Davidian center in Israel. Roden also believed in the observance of ceremonial law of the Old Testament. According to Roden, it was important to observe Jewish festivals because "the ceremonial Law sets the time for the important events in the last days."
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"In 1977, Roden's wife, Lois, experienced a vision. Following this vision, Lois Roden began to teach that the Holy Spirit was feminine. In addition, she proclaimed that at the Second Coming the messiah would appear in female form. After her husband's death in 1978, which she hailed as the day when the seventh seal in the book of Revelation was opened, Lois continued her mission of spreading the word about God's femininity to all believers. Lois became alienated from her son, George, because of his struggle for succession, and consequently allied herself with Vernon Howell.
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"Vernon Howell (David Koresh) ultimately became the leader of the Branch Davidians and ushered in a new era for the Branch Davidians with his New Light doctrine and elevated prophetic status. Koresh furthered the work of his forefathers by continuing with the Adventist tradition, adopting a messianic role essential to human salvation, and ordaining the end time. With his focus on the Book of Revelation, Koresh desired to create a new lineage of God's children from his seed, making him the perfect mate for all female adherents. Thus, Koresh became the pivotal character in the restoration of humanity to its divine purpose. Koresh established what he called the House of David and in 1984 began taking "spiritual wives." Differing from past eras, he progressively linked his group's activities to an imminent future and not to past tradition. A key distinction within Koresh's era was his gradual revelation of the secrets of the seven seals in Bible study sessions, which convinced the group that they were living in the end time. Koresh stressed that the apocalypse would occur in America and not in Israel, and because of this the Davidians began to adopt survivalist tactics such as stockpiling food and weapons. In 1992, he renamed the Mount Carmel community "Ranch Apocalypse."
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"Under Koresh's leadership, the group adopted a much more communal form of organization and recruited heavily from the young adult population. Community organization became more communal as living at Mount Carmel was emphasized, marriages were arranged, all money went towards the group, and the "Mighty Men" (based on the guards at King Solomon's bed in the Bible) was established. The "Mighty Men" were Koresh's lieutenants who held various responsibilities within the community. Gradually, tension with the larger society increased as the Davidians moved toward prophetic movement organization. Perpetuating the conflict with the greater society and with the SDA, Koresh and the Branch Davidians concentrated on moving into the divinely ordained future, revealing the secrets of the seven seals, and awaiting the end of time with the Second Coming of Christ." (end quotes)
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Um... whackos in Waco?
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From what I read, there were 11 survivors of the Reno massacre. Six were sent to prison on weapons charges. Their sentences were significantly reduced in 2000, and all were released from prison this year (2006).

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - whackos in Waco?

In response to Waco cult - Branch Davidians posted by Migisi:
Um... whackos in Waco?

wackos? well.. probably... but, as a free nation, people can practice what they want, as long as they follow the law of the land and do not intend to do harm to others.....

I would simply classify them as a cult (within the name of Christianity). I did not know much about them, so the info you provided was an eye-opener for sure...

From what I read, there were 11 survivors

theres that number 11 again..

of the Reno massacre.

no doubt about that!

how ya been Migisi...??....

I got some kewl looking fall pics of my trees.. Ill post them later if ya got an interest to take a look....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Waco cult

In response to Waco cult posted by pink101:
They might cast some light on what the FBI was up to with that weird sect.

had something to do with their right to bear arms... I think that was probably the main objective, and used "religion" as an excuse to execute them..... Amercian style no doubt... A Texas style BBQ? Courtesy from those who have our best interests in mind no doubt.. Big Daddy - protecting us (the lil people) from those evil people.... (yawn-yawn)...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Migisi - whackos in Waco?

In response to whackos in Waco? posted by _Boanerges_:

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but, as a free nation, people can practice what they want, as long as they follow the law of the land and do not intend to do harm to others.....
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I agree. 80 people (mostly women and kids) died in Waco.
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And Ruby Ridge. I watched the Senate hearing on that one. It was entrapment - a set up with sawed-off shotguns. They were trying to force Weaver to inform on the Aryan Nation, but he refused. They charged him with illegal shotguns, and intentionally put a wrong court date on his court summons. When he failed to appear, he was declared a federal fugitive. The US Marshals and FBI moved in to arrest him. They were afraid of Weaver because he was a Viet vet - a sargeant in the Green Beret. They killed the family dog, Weaver's son, his wife, and wounded Weaver and his friend. All over shotguns ~they~ had given to him to saw down.
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I remember a senator asked one of the US Marshals involved how many guns he himself owned privately. His answer: 14. The senator then asked how many guns Weaver had in his home. His answer: 4. That put things in perspective.

-- posted by Migisi

» _Boanerges_ - Ruby Ridge

In response to whackos in Waco? posted by Migisi:
another American showcase....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Irrelative

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If these people were whackos or not is irrelative to the greater question of their humanity.
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Wendell, you should be ashamed of your connotation about a Texas style BBQ.
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I read your references, Migisi, to the Branch Davidians. Thanks for being so good at doing your homework. I find it interesting that their beliefs are so much like what populist Christians are pumping at us today. Egoistic beliefs held by alpha males who gather suck-ups around them so they can get their pick of the dollies as they approach maturity. Part of what it means to be deluded.
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Sheez!! When will we ever learn?
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-- posted by pink101

» _Boanerges_ - Irrelative

In response to Irrelative posted by pink101:
Wendell, you should be ashamed of your connotation about a Texas style BBQ.

The Government burnt those people alive. Call it what ~you~ want, thats fine with me....

If I felt ashamed of what I said, I would not had said it. So - maybe reread it and try to see that which is not there. [If] you ~still~ believe you've found something there (something to feel ashamed for).. well.. then - please do feel free to feel ashamed for me. But - don't worry about how I feel, as I'll be fine and will stand with my words - as I always do:)... I meant exactly what I said!...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Brian Tubbs - Pink

In response to Irrelative posted by pink101:

I find it interesting that their beliefs are so much like what populist Christians are pumping at us today. Egoistic beliefs held by alpha males who gather suck-ups around them so they can get their pick of the dollies as they approach maturity. Part of what it means to be deluded.

Pink, when you say "populist Christians," what do you mean by that?

You've clearly associated "populist Christians" (evangelicals? fundamentalists? Bible-believers?) with alpha male cultists who exploit underage women.

Do you want to clarify that?

» pink101 - Reproving

In response to Pink posted by BrianTubbs:
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You're probably right. It does look like I'm saying that all populist Christians are like those LDS brances where the "Principle" is practiced. We've been seeing a lot of that recently in some notable cases on the tube.
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For the most part, very few "Bible Believing" Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Charismatics, and Spiritists would ever dream of giving support to such a practice--they probably think it as outrageous. It was wrong of me to no be more clear in my statement. It was a careless example on my part. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am able to accept reproving unlike the one that felt no shame is his reference to a Texas Style BBQ to explain the horrible halocaust in which the Branch Davidians died.
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-- posted by pink101

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-- posted by _Boanerges_