Protestantism

» Brian Tubbs - Sunday's Sermons

In response to Sunday's Sermons posted by pink101:

I assume you're implying that evangelical pastors will urge their congregants to vote for a certain party or candidate.

I can only speak for myself. I have Republicans and Democrats in the church I pastor, and I've made it clear from the pulpit that we shouldn't put our hopes in ANY political party. That said, I've also taught that we are to be good stewards of what God has given us, and that means we should stay informed on the issues, vote, and stay in touch with our elected leaders.

» Brother_Jones - grow up that way?

In response to grow up that way? posted by _Boanerges_:

As one who has looked at this subject, without the brainwashing of "growing up" with some denomination, it appears to me that the premillenial version is as the scriptures reveal.

I don't think I was brainwashed. We did study the passages concerning the return of Christ fairly often and believed a different idea than yours of His return.

Have you ever seen the issue debated in a public forum to be aware of the opposing view?

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» _Boanerges_ - grow up that way?

In response to grow up that way? posted by Brother_Jones:
G'day Brother Jones... How is everything in Texas?

I don't think I was brainwashed.

Someone has to be brainwashed! I mean, there can only be one truth concerning Christs return (tribulation, etc)...

We did study the passages concerning the return of Christ fairly often and believed a different idea than yours of His return.

My idea would have to be the same as any person who considers the scriptures. Otherwise, all we have is opinion. Now, thats not a bad thing, dont get me wrong. Even still, this is a side issue that has no bearing on salvation.. so, the division this topic creates is, in my opinion, totally unecessary... In addition, I did not claim that you were brainwashed. But, clearly, if there is only one way its going to be, obviously someone is going to be brainswashed according to which denomination they belong to.

In fact, I see this division quite often, especially with the charismatic's who believe (unto a point of division)) that unless the "holy spirit" produces "tongues" and/or "faith healing" within a person, then.. well.. they do not have the Holy Spirit. I often find this type of brainwashing so far from what Jesus and the Apostles taught, that it is nothing less than division within the body of Christ, and clearly shows how absurd some of the so-called "denominations" are not only brainwashed, but believe in a completely different Gospel that what the scriptures reveal. And it is these types of problems that I believe actually turns people off about Christianity. Not the preaching on damnation, etc...

Have you ever seen the issue debated in a public forum to be aware of the opposing view?

Of course....!

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» pink101 - Sunday's Sermons

In response to Sunday's Sermons posted by BrianTubbs:
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Certainly.
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My bet was on the idea that there will be many sermons given to get the congregations to the polls on election day.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - grow up that way?

In response to grow up that way? posted by _Boanerges_:
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Jones asks Wendell, "Have you ever seen the issue debated in a public forum to be aware of the opposing view?"
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And Wendell replies, "Of course....!"
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And, Pink sez, Is that so, Wendell: Well, then, what are the arguments for the other side? You must be well versed.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Sunday's Sermons

In response to Sunday's Sermons posted by pink101:

My bet was on the idea that there will be many sermons given to get the congregations to the polls on election day.

My sermon this Sunday won't focus on that, but I have always urged my friends, acquaintances, etc to stay informed, vote, and stay in touch with their leaders. So, I will certainly remind people on Sunday to vote.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pastors urging their congregants to vote. Just as I don't think it's wrong for club leaders to urge their members to vote, neighborhood associations to urge homeowners to vote, schools to urge their seniors to register to vote and vote when they turn 18, PTAs to urge parents and teachers to vote, and so on.

I'm not saying YOU are going this far, but others have, and that is this...

Many critics of evangelical Christianity get all up-in-arms that evangelical Christian churches urge their congregations to vote. And they get upset about this, as if it's some kind of authoritarian cancer or sinister conspiracy. That gets me a little upset, because I believe that EVERYONE should be involved in our democratic system, and that includes liberals and conservatives, atheists and theists, Republicans and Democrats.

» Migisi - Sunday's Sermons

In response to Sunday's Sermons posted by BrianTubbs:

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I certainly don't mind if a church reminds folks to get involved in the election process. I object when a pastor and church elders eject folks from their congregation for not voting Republican, as happened in one church in 2004. And elsewhere in other churches, candidates who didn't come out publicly to denounce abortion were threatened with excommunication - notices of such (and their names) were posted in the church's lobbies. Yeah, I get up in arms about that, and apparently so did those congregations.

-- posted by Migisi

» Brother_Jones - grow up that way?

In response to grow up that way? posted by _Boanerges_:

My idea would have to be the same as any person who considers the scriptures.

One of the interesting features of the study of history includes that this particular idea of dispensationalism did not exist before John Nelson Darby brought it to America in the mid 1800's, so all those folks in the past considered it differently than you. I believe that is the single piece of information that holds the doctrine suspect. If true, it means that every hardworking theological scholar before that time either missed the idea of it or they were somehow 'brainwashed,' as you put it.

Maybe you can provide some kind of belief trail for these beliefs before Darby. I do realize that at times in history knowledge and wisdom seem as rare as the times we live, but visions and prophecies included in the bible are not all founded in the earthly realm, but appear to be speaking of occurences in the heavens.

i am just an oldtimer for the Lord.

-- posted by Brother_Jones

» Brian Tubbs - Response to Migisi

In response to Sunday's Sermons posted by Migisi:

Well, from the standpoint of religious freedom, I believe a church has the right to say whatever it wants. If a church wants to say: "If you don't vote Democrat (or Republican), you're out of God's will," then that is their perogative.

But...

Speaking as an individual Christian and practicing pastor, I would say that I agree with you. We shouldn't reduce God to some political or partisan poster.

I like what Mr. Lincoln said when he was asked whether he thought God was on his side in the Civil War. Lincoln responded: "Sir, my cocern is not whether God is on our side. My great concern is to be on God's side."

» _Boanerges_ - grow up that way?

In response to grow up that way? posted by Brother_Jones:
but visions and prophecies included in the bible are not all founded in the earthly realm, but appear to be speaking of occurences in the heavens.

I'm not following you on this.. For example?

by the way, I did ask how you were doing.. I guess that was too personal to ask? Okie, I'll just be cold shouldered and try the slam ya approach...

I guess... ey...

so.. forget the chit chat and jus answer the damn question and quit beatin round the bush.. (sigh)...
(wink)

-- posted by _Boanerges_